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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
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| Alan B. Krueger, a Princeton University professor who recently served as chief economist for the United States Treasury, was tapped on Monday by President Obama to head the Council of Economic Advisers. ...He is perhaps best known for his research on the minimum wage, in which he used an empirical experiment to determine that raising the minimum wage did not reduce employment. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/business/krueger-chosen-to-lead-economic-council.html?hp |
I reviewed his study when it was published.
Kreuger's study pertains to the exisiting minimum wage and its effects in supressing wages and the impact of small incremental increases in the minimum wage level in an inflationary environment. It did not study the impacts of the initial imposition of the minimum wage nor the permanent unemployment caused by the minimum wage.
What his study actually shows quite well is that the minimum wage supresses wages for workers at and near the minimum to significantly below the market wage. His study actually proves that the minimum wage causes workers to earn less.
As a result, it is possible to raise the minimum wage without significant job loss. Only those few workers who are worth exactly or within a small range of the minimum will lose their jobs when the rate is raised.
Thus, their study found some job losses, but they were low. It is just as one would expect since the minimum wage has creates a long-term, institutional force by the government that causes workers at or near the minimum to earn significantly less than what they would earn in a free market. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| I applaud Canada's success. Its just Canadian condescension that bothers me. |
Ditto. I generally like Canada, when they're not lecturing Americans on how much better our country would be if we would only become more socialist like them... |
Again misinformed. Canada's not a Socialist country. Our governments don't own the rails, airlines, mines, or anything else. Some provinces have private power companies; while other provinces own them. Education and health care are completely run by each province. In America, "States rights" advocates would lvoe that. We have free health care with private companies bidding to deliver some of the services. But what do you spend on Medicare, Medicade, VA's hospitals, etc? Seems you spend more as a % of GDP on healthcare than we do. Don't get me wrong, there are things in your past I can respect. It was very easy in both countries at one time to start a business or do anything else for that matter. But, now it's all about zoning and this regulation and that regulation in both countries.
Though I have been told by some Americans living in these subdivion developments get told what they can and can't do. IE Their house must be a certain color and they must plant so many shrubs or trees in their yeard. Smacks of communisim to me. In my hometown, we have none of that. We build our own home and we do what we want, excert for piling junk or old cars in our front yard. (Of course, that's not allowed.)
We have regional differences like you. Quebec is the most socialist and Alberta is the most free enterprise. We also have large distance to cover with thin populations which can make some things more expensive. Like America we have resources. We dig at them more; while special interest groups seem to prevent you from doing the same. We have environmental reviews and then get down to business if it works. Our tree huggers can whine but at some point business must get under way.
As far as single earners go, I think you have more deductions, at least at the lower and middle levels anyways. I've had Americans, one from the south and one from the northeast tell me that their total deductions from their pay was in the 20 to 25% range. I don't recall ever paying more than 10 to 15% total. This including Federal, provincial income tax, Canada Pension plan premiums, and Employment insurance (if you become unemployed.)
A google and wikipedia search is never far from your fingertips. Maybe more Americans should be informed about us.
You need to make the tough choices, be decisive, and tell the special interest groups running your nation to go to hell or you'll be stuck in this constant miserable state of low or no growth. Your national debt is truly horrifying. Get some politicians with balls. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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If I can give you one prime piece of advice, get rid of that filibustering rule in your Senate. That's the biggest gridlock inducer there ever was. Our parliamentary governments mean things can happen quickly with limited ability to filibuster. Eventually after some debate, a vote must be taken.
For the record, I do actually like America most of the time. I actually do want you to pick yourself up and succeed. If you do well, we can sell more to you and trade more with you. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
But what do you spend on Medicare, Medicade, VA's hospitals, etc? Seems you spend more as a % of GDP on healthcare than we do. Don't get me wrong, there are things in your past I can respect.
. . .
Maybe more Americans should be informed about us. |
This is great. You're like the embodiment of a stereotype.
Keep posting. You're hilarious.
| Quote: |
| If I can give you one prime piece of advice, get rid of that filibustering rule in your Senate. That's the biggest gridlock inducer there ever was. |
That's great! I'll bring that up at the next meeting, dude. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Before this thread, I was totally ignorant about Canada but now I feel like I deserve Canadian citizenship for all the knowledge I now have thanks to Weigookin74. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| I applaud Canada's success. Its just Canadian condescension that bothers me. |
Ditto. I generally like Canada, when they're not lecturing Americans on how much better our country would be if we would only become more socialist like them... |
Again misinformed. Canada's not a Socialist country. Our governments don't own the rails, airlines, mines, or anything else. |
Heh. I pretty much stopped reading around here. A quick search on wiki yielded the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_corporations_of_Canada
I'm not trying to say Canada is the USSR, but that seems like a heckuva lot of state-run corporations for a "non socialist" country... And just because your provinces run health care and education does not make it any less socialist, since it is still government. No doubt the federal government regulates everything very heavily, no? Also, what do middle class Canadians pay in income tax these days? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
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Defined as such, liberalism is evolutionarily novel. Humans (like other species) are evolutionarily designed to be altruistic toward their genetic kin, their friends and allies, and members of their deme (a group of intermarrying individuals) or ethnic group. They are not designed to be altruistic toward an indefinite number of complete strangers whom they are not likely ever to meet or interact with. This is largely because our ancestors lived in a small band of 50-150 genetically related individuals, and large cities and nations with thousands and millions of people are themselves evolutionarily novel.
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The problem with this is a lot of American conservatives don't even recognise evolution. I've encountered some that don't believe in carbon dating and honestly think the world is 4000 years old  |
[/quote]
You can find extremists in both camps to be fair. You could say I am a liberal in some sense. However, I consider thinking of the good of the whole society as a conservative notion, too, because it encourages stability.
Anyhow, many American conservatives are too rigid and some focus on religion too much, which blinds them, because if you're a religious ideologue, then you'll tend to focus on quotes in the "good book". It's good in its own way, but the constitution calls for a separation of church-and-state, and it makes no mention of Christianity or any religion whatsoever. These conservatives ignore that.
Also, they are anti-taxation when those who led the revolution did not say they completely opposed taxation. They were against taxation without representation. And conservatives want a large military, but it requires a lot of revenue and to generate that revenue you need to taxes. That's one reason we have so much debt. Ronald Reagan and Dubya expanded the military budgets during the Cold and Crescent wars respectively, and without raising taxes. And the Right expects soldiers to sacrifice their lives, but they won't sacrifice some of their income in order to pay off the debt. The middle class has also been taken advantage of because banks have been bailed out, but we can't declare bankruptcy anymore. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| I applaud Canada's success. Its just Canadian condescension that bothers me. |
Ditto. I generally like Canada, when they're not lecturing Americans on how much better our country would be if we would only become more socialist like them... |
Again misinformed. Canada's not a Socialist country. Our governments don't own the rails, airlines, mines, or anything else. |
Heh. I pretty much stopped reading around here. A quick search on wiki yielded the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_corporations_of_Canada
I'm not trying to say Canada is the USSR, but that seems like a heckuva lot of state-run corporations for a "non socialist" country... And just because your provinces run health care and education does not make it any less socialist, since it is still government. No doubt the federal government regulates everything very heavily, no? Also, what do middle class Canadians pay in income tax these days? |
Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation: Provides insurance for homeowners today, but originally gave laons for returning soldiers after WW II.
Fannie mae and Freddie Mac? Owned by the government?
Canada Lands Company Limited: Current goal: "to ensure the commercially oriented, orderly disposition of surplus properties with optimal value to the Canadian taxpayer and the holding of certain properties." This happens when you downsize the government and no longer need all the land you own. In other words to get rid of it.
Canadian federal marginal tax rates of taxable income
2011
$0 � $10,527 0%
$10,528 - $41,544 15%
$41,544 - $83,088 22%
$83,088 - $128,800 26%
over $128,800 29%
$150,000 of income equals $31825.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
$300,000 of income equals $75325.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
Alberta takes it a step further and has a flat income tax with one rate -10% and no provincial sales tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
You don't pay income tax on the first 10,000 of income. In America, you're taxed on every dollar. We have no death taxes. You do. A single earner pays less in tax than America, but families pay more because you give more deductions.
American year 2008 income brackets and tax rates
Marginal Tax Rate
Single Person
10%
$0 � $8,025
15%
$8,026 � $32,550
25%
$32,551 � $78,850
28%
$78,851 � $164,550
33%
$164,551 � $357,700
35%
$357,701+
Do your own calculation and figure out who pays more.
You have "Bracket Creep" we don't.
Our unemployment rate is 7%, yours is over 9%.
But if you really want to be shocked. Look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia
Russia has become more Free Enterprise than both of us. Low taxes and low business regulations. Their economy is really growing. Partly because of oil, but partly because of business expansion and consumer spending. Russia has a larger population than Canada. America has oil too. They've really thrown off the shackles of Socialism under Putin. I was shcoked! I mean really shocked!
But getting back to Canada, after a few years of balanced budgets, our Liberal government cut tax rates. Our economy has fared better because of less taxation, lower regulations, but a regulated banking sector, and years of paying down debt. When the recession hit, we had lots of wiggle room. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| I applaud Canada's success. Its just Canadian condescension that bothers me. |
Ditto. I generally like Canada, when they're not lecturing Americans on how much better our country would be if we would only become more socialist like them... |
Again misinformed. Canada's not a Socialist country. Our governments don't own the rails, airlines, mines, or anything else. |
Heh. I pretty much stopped reading around here. A quick search on wiki yielded the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_corporations_of_Canada
I'm not trying to say Canada is the USSR, but that seems like a heckuva lot of state-run corporations for a "non socialist" country... And just because your provinces run health care and education does not make it any less socialist, since it is still government. No doubt the federal government regulates everything very heavily, no? Also, what do middle class Canadians pay in income tax these days? |
A crown corporation is not a company that competes with the private sector. It is a way some governments in Canada organize some of theit departments. It is meant to keep politics out of some of the bureacracy and decision making. The government sets the agenda and it's their job to do it in a business like manner at the lowest cost. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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On the Russian note, that article didn't mention this. So, I took this from the main article:
"A simpler, more streamlined tax code adopted in 2001 reduced the tax burden on people and dramatically increased state revenue.[136] Russia has a flat tax rate of 13 percent. This ranks it as the country with the second most attractive personal tax system for single managers in the world after the United Arab Emirates.[137] According to Bloomberg, Russia is considered well ahead of most other resource-rich countries in its economic development, with a long tradition of education, science, and industry.[138] The country has more higher education graduates than any other country in Europe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Economy
So, while you Americans squable over who's more Liberal and who's more Conservative, just remember all the other countries who are growing and will overtake you, unless you role up your sleeves and get to work.
The right economic policies will bring job growth, reduce poverty, and make it easier to fund the things you really do need. Balance your books, cut red tape, compromise on the tax issue for now. (You can always revisit it in the future, if things are booming.) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
But what do you spend on Medicare, Medicade, VA's hospitals, etc? Seems you spend more as a % of GDP on healthcare than we do. Don't get me wrong, there are things in your past I can respect.
. . .
Maybe more Americans should be informed about us. |
This is great. You're like the embodiment of a stereotype.
Keep posting. You're hilarious.
| Quote: |
| If I can give you one prime piece of advice, get rid of that filibustering rule in your Senate. That's the biggest gridlock inducer there ever was. |
That's great! I'll bring that up at the next meeting, dude. |
What I meant is that a Parliamentary government with majority control and some guts can change things pretty quickly. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
[qt.
Canadian federal marginal tax rates of taxable income
2011
$0 � $10,527 0%
$10,528 - $41,544 15%
$41,544 - $83,088 22%
$83,088 - $128,800 26%
over $128,800 29%
$150,000 of income equals $31825.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
$300,000 of income equals $75325.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
Alberta takes it a step further and has a flat income tax with one rate -10% and no provincial sales tax.
. When the recession hit, we had lots of wiggle room. |
If taxes were really that low would still over half of all Canadians have no problem cheating (in some form or another) on their taxes.? The answer is that is only Federal tax. The provinces take another chunk out as well. And then there is municipal tax...such as property taxation. Then there are those sales taxes that most provinces have...
http://finance.sympatico.ca/home/one_in_two_ready_to_cheat_the_taxman_poll/eee759ac
And here are the tax rates for the provinces (2011)
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html#provincial |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed. Right now my deductions for taxes, pension and health insurance in Korea are about 10%. Were I in Canada, it would be over 30%, and I would be taxed on taxable benefits such as my apartment and airfare.
As far as the original topic is concerned: wisdom is more important than intelligence or knowledge. If a man drinks from a poisoned well, all his learning is for naught. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
[qt.
Canadian federal marginal tax rates of taxable income
2011
$0 � $10,527 0%
$10,528 - $41,544 15%
$41,544 - $83,088 22%
$83,088 - $128,800 26%
over $128,800 29%
$150,000 of income equals $31825.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
$300,000 of income equals $75325.20 of Federal Income Tax paid, assuming no deductions.
Alberta takes it a step further and has a flat income tax with one rate -10% and no provincial sales tax.
. When the recession hit, we had lots of wiggle room. |
If taxes were really that low would still over half of all Canadians have no problem cheating (in some form or another) on their taxes.? The answer is that is only Federal tax. The provinces take another chunk out as well. And then there is municipal tax...such as property taxation. Then there are those sales taxes that most provinces have...
http://finance.sympatico.ca/home/one_in_two_ready_to_cheat_the_taxman_poll/eee759ac
And here are the tax rates for the provinces (2011)
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html#provincial |
USA has state governments taking a chunk too. Alberta is the most free enterprise, while Quebec is the most taxing and Leftist. I recalled about total deductions (prov income and fed income tax, Pension plan, unemployment insurance, etc) amounting to less than 15 per cent of my paycheck while americans i met told me their deductions seemed to average over 20 per cent and they got no health care. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Biblethumper wrote: |
Indeed. Right now my deductions for taxes, pension and health insurance in Korea are about 10%. Were I in Canada, it would be over 30%, and I would be taxed on taxable benefits such as my apartment and airfare.
As far as the original topic is concerned: wisdom is more important than intelligence or knowledge. If a man drinks from a poisoned well, all his learning is for naught. |
You'd best be moving to another province then. Health insurance is free in Canada and therefore isn't taxed. Korea is still a good deal and deductions for us are much lower here. There's no arguing that. |
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