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munch.rodney
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
Please don't support the ruling elite of murderous regimes with your tourist dollars just so you can say you saw what they wanted to let you see. Please.
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I've been to America... Same damn thing in theory, only a little worse. My money went to fund illegal wars and torture. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| TJ ran out of this thread faster than an ajumma at an etiquette convention. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
Uh, yea, he has the right to express his opinion. It becomes public business when people go around posting about it on discussion boards.
Also, he's right. It's one of the worst countries in the world to live. If everyone just stopped touring NK, they would lose a noticeable amount of money. You're welcome to your opinion, but we're also welcome to remind you that you are actually supporting some very evil people by going there and if you don't care, that makes you a bad person. |
He is not right and your argument applies to America as well (as someone has already pointed out). If you want to do a comparison, there are more people without health insurance there than total population of North Korea. Going to America and buying some of the products there, you woul dbe supporting some very evil corporations who use sweat shops around the world to maximize their profits.
Evil is everywhere and if we use yours and his logic, we might as well all stay home and let the banks have our money. |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| i hate this forum... |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| marsreloaded wrote: |
| TJ ran out of this thread faster than an ajumma at an etiquette convention. |
How about 'an evangelical at a hooker convention'? |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| If I decide to go next summer should I tell my school I'm going somewhere else? |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
No you don't. There is no right granting the privilage of interfering in my private business. I am as free if not more so than you, and have the right to say who gets to comment on MY private business.
You have no right to tell me what is or isn't moral, no one died and left you God/god/allah/buddha/confucious. Your standard of morality means nothing to me as I do not serve you nor am I under your authority.
You do not want to give the same rights and freedoms that you seem to demand for yourself to others. So you would be morally rehensible for butting in where you do not belong. |
He's not claiming a right to interfere in your private business, merely a right to object to your private business. Interfering would involve restricting you physically from travelling to North Korea, but what he's doing is stating his opinion that you shouldn't go. He has that right, but not the right to make you listen. On the contrary, you have the right to ignore it. You've chosen not to exercise that right, but it's there. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
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| Guess who doesn't get to do those things? North Koreans is the answer I was looking for, in case you didn't know |
SO? That is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with tourism.
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| The are tightly run state run tours. You think you hand the money over to the NORKs and it turns into humanitarian aid |
North Korea gets its money to stay in power from its allies, mostly China and Russia, not tourism dollars.
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| Wrong again. Thanks to the wonders of free speech and democracy I have EVERY right to state my opinion about your travel habits |
No you don't. There is no right granting the privilage of interfering in my private business. I am as free if not more so than you, and have the right to say who gets to comment on MY private business.
You have no right to tell me what is or isn't moral, no one died and left you God/god/allah/buddha/confucious. Your standard of morality means nothing to me as I do not serve you nor am I under your authority.
You do not want to give the same rights and freedoms that you seem to demand for yourself to others. So you would be morally rehensible for butting in where you do not belong. |
1. It has to do with your argument that traveling to North Korea and America are equivalent. They are not. One is a brutal dictatorship, the other a representative democracy. You can bash the US all you want but the power if with the people to change things, voting, freedom of speech and assembly. Matter of fact, non-Americans can go there and protest and say what the want too! You go try that up North. So your argument that you are traveling to one evil empire over another doesn't hold much water.
2. With the North being as poor as it is, yes, your tourist dollars matter. The North Korean regime is winding down and is so desperate for ANY money that they are shifting their tourist policies to get suckers like you in to continue to prop up their dying regime.
http://www.investoralist.com/desperate-and-starving-north-korea-may-open-up-for-more-tourist-dollars/
3. You clearly don't understand the concept of free speech or a public forum. Or even grasping the basic concepts of this debate apparently. I personally have every right in the world to tell you that I think your stance on this is a moral and selfish. You abdicated your right to choose who comments about your travel plans by blabbing about them on an open internet forum. Also, I fail to see what right or freedom I am denying you? No where here have I said people shouldn't be allowed to go to North Korea. I have merely stated that people who do go are short sighted, selfish jerks who value their "life experiences" more than the actual lives of the people in North Korea. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Guess who doesn't get to do those things? North Koreans is the answer I was looking for, in case you didn't know |
SO? That is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with tourism.
| Quote: |
| The are tightly run state run tours. You think you hand the money over to the NORKs and it turns into humanitarian aid |
North Korea gets its money to stay in power from its allies, mostly China and Russia, not tourism dollars.
| Quote: |
| Wrong again. Thanks to the wonders of free speech and democracy I have EVERY right to state my opinion about your travel habits |
No you don't. There is no right granting the privilage of interfering in my private business. I am as free if not more so than you, and have the right to say who gets to comment on MY private business.
You have no right to tell me what is or isn't moral, no one died and left you God/god/allah/buddha/confucious. Your standard of morality means nothing to me as I do not serve you nor am I under your authority.
You do not want to give the same rights and freedoms that you seem to demand for yourself to others. So you would be morally rehensible for butting in where you do not belong. |
You're hilarious. I don't know what country you're from, but western nations agree "free speech" is a basic human right. I have every right to tell anyone any opinion as long as it doesn't interfere with their rights. I am not calling the police or physically stopping you from doing anything. You put forward your opinion, I put forward mine. To say I have no right to speak my opinion is laughably moronic.
| calendar wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
Uh, yea, he has the right to express his opinion. It becomes public business when people go around posting about it on discussion boards.
Also, he's right. It's one of the worst countries in the world to live. If everyone just stopped touring NK, they would lose a noticeable amount of money. You're welcome to your opinion, but we're also welcome to remind you that you are actually supporting some very evil people by going there and if you don't care, that makes you a bad person. |
He is not right and your argument applies to America as well (as someone has already pointed out). If you want to do a comparison, there are more people without health insurance there than total population of North Korea. Going to America and buying some of the products there, you woul dbe supporting some very evil corporations who use sweat shops around the world to maximize their profits.
Evil is everywhere and if we use yours and his logic, we might as well all stay home and let the banks have our money. |
Again, you're just showing you have no idea what you're talking about. Every country has problems, but to compare the problems of NK and the USA is just stupid. The number of innocent deaths in Iraq (many of which are not caused by US forces) pales in comparison to the deaths by starvation in NK. These are deaths the regime is directly responsible for. Any other problem you have in the US can be met by a much greater problem in DPRK. Amnesty international has accused NK of "having one of the worst human rights records of any nation."
Post one more time for comedy:
| Quote: |
| MY private business. |
posted on a public forum. Just hilarious. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| If I decide to go next summer should I tell my school I'm going somewhere else? |
Yes, just say you're visiting China. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| bekinseki wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| If I decide to go next summer should I tell my school I'm going somewhere else? |
Yes, just say you're visiting China. |
Nice one. Will do  |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Nice one. Will do
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and it wouldn't be a lie either, since it sounds like china is the best place to enter NK from. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| pedrotaves wrote: |
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Nice one. Will do
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and it wouldn't be a lie either, since it sounds like china is the best place to enter NK from. |
With the current embargo/travel restrictions on N.Korea it is just about the ONLY place to enter N.Korea from (and you still need to get a Chinese visa too - another issue and expense (up to $200 for Americans) for those with short times remaining on their ARCs).
. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: |
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When i read posts like the two represented here, one by shifter and the other by akrono I become saddened as times have changed so much. Clearly they both are American who have not learned their boundaries and think their freedoms trump other people's private business.
It has nothing to do with being on a public forum, that is a side issue, one reason being if I were planning a trip to the North I would not advertise it on this or any other forum. Second, even if I did, those that disagree have no right to interject their opposition because they were not asked for their opinion.
Knowing one's boundaries is very important, but since so many younger teachers here have not learned the lessons of proper society but favor their supposed freedoms to interefere and stick their noses in where they do not belong.
Freedom does come with responsibilities and once such is respecting other people's right to privacy even if they casually mention something another person does not like or approve. Freedom certainly doesn't allow those, who do not like such activities, to insult others or question what they understand.
If I or anyone decide to go to NK, then it is no one's business to state their objection unless asked for their opinion. Some people forget the rules of civilization and only want freedom even though it is a "dangerous" game they play.
I decided to respond in this way as talking to the two posters would be a waste considering their strong feelings about North Korea. It is also futile to present to them how bad America has become given the Patriot Act, TSa searches, no fly lists and other police state 'security' measures.
Too many Americans on this board are way too hyper-sensitive about their own country and it becomes tiresome listening to them deny the reality of their supposed republic and its supposed democracy. A 2 party system who limits who you can vote for is not a democracy but a skilled manipulation.
Oh and for those who can't stand hearing criticisms about their country should not be criticizing others or Korea. |
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