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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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So that means we are part of the problem too?
Hagwons give many of us a job but by working for them are we then not contributing to the insanity that is taking place? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. People love to bash Korea because of the hakwons and like to claim that kids are losing their childhood (never mind that many kids do not go these schools) in hakwons) but many if not most wouldn't even be here at all were it not for these same hakwons. |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you."  |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I will just say this however. A good teacher can teach in a entertaining and educational fashion no matter whether he is in a public school or hakwon. And a student who wants to learn will learn whether he is in a P.S or hakwon.
If one is a bad teacher or student then both are a waste of time. |
Very true. However every good teacher isn't purely there to entertain, they are there to educate.
I watched an interview of Joe Clark (the hero of the movie Lean on Me) who stated that youth should be given a choice- to study or work. Since most youth in Korea don't get that freedom, it harms the overall quality in education. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you." |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
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jgrant85
Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Two of my students last week got simultaneous nosebleeds in the same class. Neither of them were picking their nose or anything like that, but it was so much blood that it left a steady stream on the floor as my student ran to the bathroom. When I asked my co-teacher about it, she said it's quite common in Korea for students to get nosebleeds from studying and stressing so much... wow, that's all I can say. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Reading this article, the first thing that came to mind is that if they're going to prosecute the hagwon owners/staff/etc., they should probably prosecute the parents too. |
Koreans are a big fan of bandwagons. Issues (propaganda) like Dodko and the anti-US Beef sentiment were nothing more than clever people riling up the masses for whatever gain they were after.
If only the government would get the ball rolling on trying to convince Korean mothers to stop pushing their kids to study for such long hours. I think it's one of this society's biggest issues yet the perpetrators are rarely being singled out for their behaviour (the mothers). They need to be the target of a massive campaign aimed at changing their mind.
It shouldn't be hard considering pretty much every proper statistic would reflect that hagwons are a bad idea. I get that not every parent has time to take care of their kids in the afternoons/evenings but that doesn't mean the kids should have to be in a classroom or study room until 10:00pm.
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That would mean though that a lot of hakwon teachers would be out of work/get paid less.
Be careful what you wish for, it might come true. |
Indeed, and I'm not really suggesting that this happen, just that it kind of misses the point when you just prosecute the people holding schools without prosecuting those paying the schools and begging them to stay open late into the night. If you want to put an end to it, go after the parents. Until you do so, there will always be some shady hagwons shuttering their windows like a Hanoi bar. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you." |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| korean students really don't study as much or as hard as they think they do. |
Exactly. In Korea: Sitting at a desk='studying'. When you get older: Sitting at a desk='working'. I'm not trying to insult the Korean way, I'm just saying it's a cultural difference. Many foreigners here, coming from places where 'work' means 'doing something productive' misinterpret quantity over quality here. Where most of us are from, if you're at work late it's because you're trying to finish a project. Here it means you're playing Starcraft until the boss leaves. And that's considered the same thing in Korea. I'm no expert on Korean culture or anything, but it's become clear that appearances are much more important than reality. Do kids spend more time 'studying' here than where I come from? In general, probably. But back home teens also work at jobs, have chores at home and do a lot of unstructured learning (walking through forests, catching frogs, making bike race courses, etc.).
| jgrant85 wrote: |
| Two of my students last week got simultaneous nosebleeds in the same class. Neither of them were picking their nose or anything like that, but it was so much blood that it left a steady stream on the floor as my student ran to the bathroom. When I asked my co-teacher about it, she said it's quite common in Korea for students to get nosebleeds from studying and stressing so much... wow, that's all I can say. |
 yeah, yeah and Korean mothers love their children more. It doesn't help that Koreans believe they work harder than anyone in the world and aren't afraid to complain about it at every single opportunity. Even my 8 year old students complain every single day about how tired and busy they are. Did you know the heavy summer rains here are just God's tears because Koreans aren't working hard enough? |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you." |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
Oh, I'm not endorsing it. I think he should be fired. I meant to say that it's good the kids have at least one place to go to relax, I just wish it wasn't at the expense of a foreigner's reputation as this kind of crap affects all of us. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you." |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
Oh, I'm not endorsing it. I think he should be fired. I meant to say that it's good the kids have at least one place to go to relax, I just wish it wasn't at the expense of a foreigner's reputation as this kind of crap affects all of us. |
good point.
i think, however, that korean students have plenty of places to "relax". the classroom at school seems to be the main one, what with all the sleeping and movie watching and "study time". |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jgrant85 wrote: |
| Two of my students last week got simultaneous nosebleeds in the same class. Neither of them were picking their nose or anything like that, but it was so much blood that it left a steady stream on the floor as my student ran to the bathroom. When I asked my co-teacher about it, she said it's quite common in Korea for students to get nosebleeds from studying and stressing so much... wow, that's all I can say. |
I think kids just get nosebleeds a lot. I remember seeing nosebleeds all the time when I was that age, when I wasn't having them myself.
| Quote: |
| i think, however, that korean students have plenty of places to "relax". the classroom at school seems to be the main one, what with all the sleeping and movie watching and "study time". |
That's true as well. Sadly, I think many Korean students think school is their home and home is just the place where they sleep and get pestered to do their homework.
I know a lot of studying is "studying" but the fact is that they always have to look like they're studying regardless of where they are. Some schools are even trying to cut PE and Art classes at the parent's requests (pretty sure the government wouldn't let that happen though).
They have to act like idiots somewhere... in my experience, they always try the hardest to get away with the most in the NET's class, be it at a hagwon or a PS, because the NET isn't in the hierarchy, doesn't really have power over them and is supposed to be the super-happy-fun-teacher. Lots of NETs are going to let their classes slide like this simply because they're allowed to and they don't really know how to teach. You can't really blame them, especially at a hagwon that may even be encouraging it, even though they should know better.
Last edited by myenglishisno on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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To those who think everyone here agrees with the system and is doing nothing to change it, sorry but it's a big issue, its an issue in elections and I've seen multiple protests by parent groups and teachers regarding the system.
Also, I think the bad part of hagwons is when they "teach to the test". A hagwon should be there to reinforce a child's strong suits/interests or to give extra help on a struggling subject. I have no problem with a child spending 3 hours a day practicing piano and golf if that's what they love. In order to get good at something you have to work at it.
Now does that mean they should be at a cram school?, obviously not.
I'd also say that forcing a child to sit down and become at least competent at whatever subject they struggle with is a good idea. Too many people these days are woefully ignorant in multiple core disciplines.
Last edited by Steelrails on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| zeppelin wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
The article was terrible, misleading and written badly. I see nothing wrong with the Korean educational system but those that do, seek pleasure over hard work anyways so their comments mean little.
They are not being 'robbed' of those 'teen years', they are studying and working hard to be successful later in life. Those that don't usually inherit the farm or orchard or go to work in other fields. The system is fine and doesn't need interference by westerners. |
Even the majority of Korean people agree that the education system needs to be reformed. Every kid competing for a place at one of 3 Universities is a recipe for disaster.
A lot of the people I speak to involved in education agree that the public school education system needs to improve. |
I have yet to meet a single Korean happy with the Korean education. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| zeppelin wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
The article was terrible, misleading and written badly. I see nothing wrong with the Korean educational system but those that do, seek pleasure over hard work anyways so their comments mean little.
They are not being 'robbed' of those 'teen years', they are studying and working hard to be successful later in life. Those that don't usually inherit the farm or orchard or go to work in other fields. The system is fine and doesn't need interference by westerners. |
Even the majority of Korean people agree that the education system needs to be reformed. Every kid competing for a place at one of 3 Universities is a recipe for disaster.
A lot of the people I speak to involved in education agree that the public school education system needs to improve. |
I have yet to meet a single Korean happy with the Korean education. |
I'd say that's one of the issues that afflicts all developed countries. Very few people are completely happy with the education their offspring is getting. Look at the fierce political battles over education in the States and to a lesser degree Canada. Politicians are always promising reform and media heads are always talking about how it is "broken."
I've always worked in rural areas and on average about half my kids do not go to a hakwon. Either their parents are too poor or simply don't believe that hakwons are the way to go. Some parents (contrary to the mantra on this board) do realize that most hakwons are simply in it for the money and education comes a far distant second. |
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