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L_orna
Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Location: Ireland
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 Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: Giving notice in a hagwon - good idea or a bad idea?? |
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Hey there...
So myself and my friend have been wanting to relocate to another job in Korea since beginning teaching at our hagwon. We decided to try stick it out, but now we really just wanna relocate to a bigger city. We have been a little suspicious of our school since they witheld half our first months wages (we were told we would get it back when we left) without informing us beforehand. I have since enquired at the labour board and they said its illegal without our consent.
They also never gave us back our degrees. I have been thinking we should give them some notice and try to be reasonable about it so that they will give us a LOR but so many people on this forum have said we will only be screwed.
I was surprised though, when I asked for the degree back and after our director said initially they would hold onto them til we finished our contract, he ended up giving them back when I politely questioned it.
He said he didnt know the policy had 'changed' and that he had checked up about it...
To be honest we dont know if he actually checked or decided that he better give them back.
He doesnt seem like a bad guy and I want to be reasonable by giving them a months notice but I dont know if this is a foolish move..
Id rather not leave the school on bad terms and we really do want to relocate to a different place in Korea.
if anyone can help, that would be great |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: |
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If you give notice, there's a good chance you'll just be working for free and would have to fight for your pay at the labor board.
If you don't give notice, you'll still be out that half a month's pay. After calling the labor board, did you ever get that back?
If you're planning on quitting your job before the term of your visa is up, you'll have to leave the country and start all over with a new set of docs. Kind of a hassle. Is it really that bad? Just wanting to move to a bigger city isn't much of a reason to bail out of your contract. It's not my place to judge, but you might want to consider that. |
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morningsoju
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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hows the working conditions of the school? are they fair? how far is it from Seoul?
if they were screwing you somehow, i would just bail. but if they have been pretty good with you, i would be honest and give them the notice. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and committment. Surely you can wait till your contract is up and then move to a new position. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and committment. Surely you can wait till your contract is up and then move to a new position. |
This again! OMG... Employees do not commit to working for a period of time by signing a contract. The employer commits to providing the terms of the contract for the designated period of time.
You have a twisted understanding of the employer employee relationship.
An employee does not need a valid reason, or any reason for that matter to walk away from a job.
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and committment. Surely you can wait till your contract is up and then move to a new position. |
This again! OMG... Employees do not commit to working for a period of time by signing a contract. The employer commits to providing the terms of the contract for the designated period of time.
You have a twisted understanding of the employer employee relationship.
An employee does not need a valid reason, or any reason for that matter to walk away from a job.
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I hope you rwife runs the business part of your buisness, you certainly od not understand contracts and how they apply. Why do you think both parties have to sig? They both have to agree to the terms found within and guess what--term length is clearly stated. Contracts are protection for BOTH parties involved. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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As a P.S. why do you think EPIK and other Korean contracts are so top heavy towards the Korean employer? To protect the FT? Not on your life and many, many people on this board have complained about this fact.
You have a problem. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and committment. Surely you can wait till your contract is up and then move to a new position. |
This again! OMG... Employees do not commit to working for a period of time by signing a contract. The employer commits to providing the terms of the contract for the designated period of time.
You have a twisted understanding of the employer employee relationship.
An employee does not need a valid reason, or any reason for that matter to walk away from a job.
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I hope you rwife runs the business part of your buisness, you certainly od not understand contracts and how they apply. Why do you think both parties have to sig? They both have to agree to the terms found within and guess what--term length is clearly stated. Contracts are protection for BOTH parties involved. |
Ignoring the ad hominem for the moment.
Again your words:
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You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and commitment.
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Again in plain English, an employee does not need a reason let alone a valid one to stop working for an employer. There is no commitment to break.
If you can not understand this then there really isn't any point in continuing. My time would better be served by reading my old Archie comics.
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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There is a committment but I see you will use that line of reasoning to help you avoid paying the extra money at the end of the contract. The committment is for 1 year but like all contracts there is a caveat of giving notice if one party wants to terminate it early.
If there was no time term mentioned then a whole bunch of legalities would arise causing a lot of problems for both parties opening both to lawsuits and other actions.
Please try to think things through instead of posting the edited version which in the long run benefits you financially. In stating that the OP gave no valid reason to quit his job, he/she didn't. Sure they can quit but their reasoning would not be looked upon by the next employer as a real reason to quit their previous employment and would work against them.
It is better to complete the committment agreed to in the contract thus making a person more valuable to the next employer and show stability not friviolous thinking/action.
One would think you would be aware of all this instead of trying to attack another poster for no real reason. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| You haven't stated a valid reason for ending your employment and skipping out on your word and committment. Surely you can wait till your contract is up and then move to a new position. |
This again! OMG... Employees do not commit to working for a period of time by signing a contract. The employer commits to providing the terms of the contract for the designated period of time.
You have a twisted understanding of the employer employee relationship.
An employee does not need a valid reason, or any reason for that matter to walk away from a job.
|
I hope you rwife runs the business part of your buisness, you certainly od not understand contracts and how they apply. Why do you think both parties have to sig? They both have to agree to the terms found within and guess what--term length is clearly stated. Contracts are protection for BOTH parties involved. |
Morally we can agree with you, but the law states differently.
The contract is to protect the rights of the employee, not the employer. The employer can only clarify the conditions under which he wants the work to be done. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not attacking anyone. Unlike you.
You are the one that said employees should honor their commitment regardless of whether they wanted to remain working for an employer.
I simply corrected you. There is no such commitment contractually.
Any labor law attorney will tell you this.
I'm finished.
Good day.
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Giving notice in a hagwon - good idea or a bad idea?? |
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| L_orna wrote: |
Hey there...
So myself and my friend have been wanting to relocate to another job in Korea since beginning teaching at our hagwon. We decided to try stick it out, but now we really just wanna relocate to a bigger city. We have been a little suspicious of our school since they witheld half our first months wages (we were told we would get it back when we left) without informing us beforehand. I have since enquired at the labour board and they said its illegal without our consent.
They also never gave us back our degrees. I have been thinking we should give them some notice and try to be reasonable about it so that they will give us a LOR but so many people on this forum have said we will only be screwed.
I was surprised though, when I asked for the degree back and after our director said initially they would hold onto them til we finished our contract, he ended up giving them back when I politely questioned it.
He said he didnt know the policy had 'changed' and that he had checked up about it...
To be honest we dont know if he actually checked or decided that he better give them back.
He doesnt seem like a bad guy and I want to be reasonable by giving them a months notice but I dont know if this is a foolish move..
Id rather not leave the school on bad terms and we really do want to relocate to a different place in Korea.
if anyone can help, that would be great |
Sorry I think you are going to have to stick this one out.
If you leave before your contract is completed, you will have to wait until your old E-2 is finished before you can be issued a new one.
That doesn't apply only if you get the LOR. To get the LOR you are going to have to give notice and they'll probably insist you forfeit money for the inconvenience. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| you avoid paying the extra money at the end of the contract |
What "extra" money? A severance is paid by the employer, not employee. Maybe you meant them. Maybe a freudian slip, and you are an employer.
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| If there was no time term mentioned |
We are using a time term. That would be your 1 month or 2 month resignation notice if you wanted. Usually I work out deals where we can severe ties immediately. I have nothing against win win scenarios, but I won't stay with a school unless I am the one who sees a valid reason to stay, not me giving a valid reason to leave.
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| It is better to complete the commitment agreed to in the contract thus making a person more valuable to the next employer and show stability not friviolous thinking/action. |
There was no commitment to finish the contract. It only states if you do you get a flight home and you get severance. If the contract was meant to be a commitment for 1 year, then why not give 1 month + 1/12 of a month as salary instead of paying out severance? Why not also give 2 more payments of 1/12 of the airfare costs as well?
We don't do that because we take into account the fact the employee or employer can terminate the contract at any point. In these cases, no airfare, no severance, and no further pension contributions are given by the employer.
Last edited by koreatimes on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't this recently change? I believe you can cancel your own visa now by departing the country and turning in your ARC. I'll try to verify this. If someone else can beat me to it all the better.
The LOR is still necessary if you want to change jobs mid visa without leaving the country.
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Morally we can agree with you, but the law states differently. |
Link to the law?
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| There is no such commitment contractually |
There is.
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| The contract is to protect the rights of the employee, not the employer |
Look up in the contract forum and see how many employer rights are protected. If an employee violates the conditions set forth in the contract, then the employer has the right to take action plus protect his business. Protection of employer rights are there.
For example: the employee fails to show up without prior notice or permission, the employer can terminate the employee. Without that right to fire an employee protected no business would sign a contract.
Both parties are protected by a contract, they are not one way documents. |
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