|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: |
 |
|
deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jamasian
Joined: 01 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: Personal Problems |
|
|
Sir, it seems like you involved yourself in personal problems so it's still wrong for you. Why quit in the 11th month?
Anywho, I think you guys are missing the point. I know how schools work. What I should have asked from the beginning is if OP has been having a terrible 4yrs or just this last year? If it is a whole terrible 4yrs then YES, I believe it is wrong to just run out now because like ZIFA said if you're willing to be stomped over for years then you just deserve to stay. Anyone dumb enough to continue....
You're acting as if all hogwons are the same. You are not bound to have a hard time just because of a hogwon. And what is all this about Japan and the ability to work at other schools? How is that relevant? My statements are all about case in point.
If you can see within the first 3months that a situation is not gonna work then change it, but if your gonna stay for 10 and complain then just stay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Personal Problems |
|
|
deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| as theyd like to be able to tell my parents that I'd be staying for the year and not leaving mid year at the completion of the contract. |
Your school wanted to tell this to your parents? Am I missing something? Why? Do your parents check up on you and call the hagwon owner like they are a camp counselor?
| Quote: |
| left with my 11/12ths of my original contract severance. |
You can NEVER get 11/12ths. You have to finish 12 months, it's all or nothing. That is why they call it 11th month firing to avoid paying severance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| left with my 11/12ths of my original contract severance. |
You can NEVER get 11/12ths. You have to finish 12 months, it's all or nothing. That is why they call it 11th month firing to avoid paying severance. |
It's pretty common for kindy hagwons to negotiate to have teachers finish at the end of the school year (and give them the full package) rather than continuously having contracts end in March or April, as the latter results in teachers taking over a new class for a month or two and then being replaced. By settling for the teacher to leave early they get that slot on a yearly schedule, which better suits the needs of the children and of the institution, as there are more teachers looking to relocate around that time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| A) we were starting a new school year, I worked in a VERY well off area, the director wanted to say "I've got a great teacher who will be the there the whole year, the teacher for this class won't change mid year" |
Ok, based on that, I think you meant the parents of your students. I wasn't clear on that before.
| Quote: |
| I assure you they gave me 11/12ths of a year's severance as I signed a new contract that superceeded the old one, in which they granted me prorated severance for months completed. They were also: |
Then it's not 11 months in your situation, but still I question because of what I understand about the labor law. Maybe someone like Ttompatz can clarify.
As for C and D, I am sorry, now I don't understand your situation fully. I originally read your post and saw 11 month leaving. There was nothing to indicate you were switching schools or getting 11 months. I thought you left and didn't get the money, as in a sacrifice.
So, it's sounding much like you didn't sacrifice. You found another job, which if I understand correctly, paid you money you would have lost (under the table) and relative to a contract obligation. If so, I don't see that as an 11th month issue. It's just them buying you basically to teach. Nothing wrong, and I hope it has worked out for you (better than the old school).
| Quote: |
| By settling for the teacher to leave early they get that slot on a yearly schedule, which better suits the needs of the children and of the institution, as there are more teachers looking to relocate around that time. |
I don't know if that is what happened to the previous poster, but the fact remains. My understanding is that in order to get severance you need to finish 12 months at least. If another school offers to pay for 11 months so you can leave early, I guess both teacher and old school come out ahead.
However, the old school wouldn't have to pay 11 months. That was the point I was making. All these exceptions get thrown in and labeled "11 month leaving", it muddies the established process. If you want your severance, you should finish 1 year, don't assume another school will pay you for the 11 months so you can leave early. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Deranged Ranger,
I am not out to get you. I am trying to understand your situation and comment on it based on what I know. Let's take a step back and work this out.
| Quote: |
| It was most certainly a "quitting in the 11th month" |
11th month firings are associated a lot with hagwons who don't want to pay severance or airfare home. This establishes a basis for legal action against them, and it also illustrates that schools are not obligated to give severance until 12 months are completed.
| Quote: |
| My ORIGINAL hagwon gave me 11 months of a severance |
They were not obligated to do this. You have to finish 12 months. After that, it is 1/12 of your monthly salary for each additional month you complete.
| Quote: |
| they had me sign a contract mid year to replace the original one, in the new one that superceeded the old one, a new clause was added that allowed me prorated monthly severance. |
How would they prorate it? Since you say they did this at the 11th month mark, you wouldn't have been able to prorate anything until you finished 12 months. When would the prorating start?
| Quote: |
| they screwed me over by the cheating |
This is why I am fuzzy on your situation, you haven't given the details. How were you cheated? I see a school paid you 11 months worth of severance when they didn't have to. After 1 month, it would have made sense to possibly pay you full severance.
In this case, does that mean the clock starts all over? (You don't get prorated.)
Does it mean they have to pay you severance? (on the 2nd month completed of the new contract term, you would get 1/12 severance then)
What exactly was the clause that was added? This is not the typical way schools do things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| portions of a year the severance is prorated for months worked |
You are just repeating what you said earlier with different words. What portions? I don't understand why they paid 11/12 of severance if they were going to have you work past 12 months. STOP THERE AND EXPLAIN THAT PART PLEASE.
| Quote: |
| Had I quit in Say October of 02 they have owed me a full year of severance (June 01 - June 02) PLUS 4/12ths of a new years severance |
Interesting, how do you get 1 year by connecting June dates with October? I am going to work this out, and please correct me where mistakes are made:
June 1, 2001 - you start working
(7 months later, not 11, go by)
Jan 2, 2002 - you sign a new contract
Why did you get 11/12 severance and not 7/12?
May 2002 is last day - Conclusion, you worked less than a year, school owes ZERO severance. You need to work 12 months before the prorating kicks in.
| Quote: |
| I had a signed contract aggreeing to prorated severance |
Prorated severance is applied AFTER 12 months, not before. They paid you 11 months worth of severance and they didn't have to. I don't even know what the October reference was supposed to establish. You could have said 5 months in November or 3 months in September.
Anyway, good for getting 11 months. I don't see how they paid you less than what you were owed though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Dude, I don't care anymore that you can't figure it out. |
This has nothing to do with me getting anything. I was trying to help YOU figure it out. You said they cheated you, but they didn't have to pay you severance. You make it sound like they had to. Now you are admitting if it went to court they may not have had to pay you anything. It doesn't matter if they agreed to prorated or not because you left before 12 months. You don't seem to understand that before 12 months the prorated clause does NOT apply.
You got 11/12 of severance, when you were not owed any of it. Possibly, if they had you sign a new contract at the 7th month mark, you could get 7/12 then. That is what I would have done, but I would have been out 4/12 severance, which the school gave you with the 7/12 in May.
Again, for definition, the severance is the average of your last 3 paychecks (10,11,12). After that, it is prorated (probably based on your new salary amount in the new contract).
If you want to call me wrong again and that I can't "figure it out" that's your choice. I will quote from the Korean Labor Standards Act:
"Article 34 (Severance Pay System)
(1) An employer shall establish a severance pay system whereby an average wage of more than 30 days shall be paid for each year of consecutive years employed as a severance pay to a retired worker; however, if the worker was employed for less than one year, this shall not apply. "
I wouldn't have brought any of this up if you hadn't disagreed that what happened to you wasn't the norm. I was simply trying to clarify the issue. I think this latest post puts the last nail in the coffin. Let's put it to rest. Your situation was very different than the norm and not anything like an 11th month firing. Nobody seemed to have cheated you. Either YOU get that or you don't. I'll move on.
Last edited by koreatimes on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I didn't ask to walk into the cheating bullcrap hagwon and become alienated for doing nothing wrong. |
| Quote: |
| they screwed me over by the cheating |
| Quote: |
| A) I never said they cheated me, not once, in fact I made it clear they were understanding to a fault. |
Hmmm????? 
| Quote: |
| I am telling you what they did for me |
Oh, you must have multiple personalities. Cheating has changed to what they did for you. I am sorry, I completely misunderstood. Now I get it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
