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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Now here is an example. An example only to bring this closer to home. I have no agenda or desire to change the policy here.
In the General Discussion forum is the following message:
| Quote: |
| Threads focusing on religion are not permitted. Attempts to start or promote such threads, including resurrecting inactive religion threads, will be followed by sanctions. |
To follow some peole's logic and the definitions copied in their posts, one could say that Dave's practices discrimination. He doesn't allow religious threads (I am not sure if that ruling applies to all forums or not but for discussion sake I will say it does) and will ban, suspend or whatever any person, especially the religious, who make them active on the board.
Now how would Dave, the moderators and the non-religious posters like it if a bunch of religous people got on here and started to compalin about how the practice is discriminationa and Dave's needs to change (just like all you do to the Korean employers).
What would you say? 1. If you do not like it here at Dave's then leave. Would probably be the top response, 2. It is Dave's forum and he gets to have his preference. Would be #2 or close to it.
Of course the religious people would ignore the preference argument and demand that it is discrimination and Dave and the members need to be jailed, lose the forum, fined, or, in their minds, worse. They would have to allow religious threads to be on the board like every other thread.
The people here would be up in arms in anger, vehemently defending their right to operate this forum as they see fit, after all it is Daves (theirs) and doesn't belong to the religious people.
Do you get the point people or do I have to continue? My question is, why do you deny the Korean people the same rights/practices you demand for yourselves? Who are you to say what the Koreans can or cannot do?
Don't get into color of skin, these are people not threads (people start and participate in threads), or some minute phrase I said to sidetrack from the point being made.
If you are allowed to have preferences then why can't the Korean people? |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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You need to start learning how to read and stop making responses to things that were never asserted. No one said Korean parents force their daughters to marry white guys! Please re read. My God, I hope you don't teach reading skills. Enough said there.
A bill "underway" is a nice start. Let's see if it passes and furthermore let's see if it's enforced (as so many such 'well meaning bills' in Korea are not. When was the last time you saw a cop pull over a law breaking motorist in Korea?).
You show me one case in which any English school in Korea was sued for not hiring or hiring someone of a given race and I'll personally give you all my years of pension saved up.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
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And that's exactly what has NOT happened, in almost any way whatsoever, in Korea. Whereas other countries have at least attempted to address the problems associated with racial discrimination, Countries in East Asia and especially Korea have not. Rather, racism and racial discrimination is "off the radar" for most people. It's the kind of thing that is taken for granted in every day life like the sun rising in the East.
And come on! Families in Korea actually forcing their daughter to marry a white guy!!!?? That'll be the day. But I think, at any rate, it would be nice if the families would back off and let those women marry whomever they want, don't you? Then maybe Korean women wouldn't be so annoying! (but thats another topic)
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You need to stop making up stuff to suit your agenda and actually do some reading. Currently a bill that would specifically outlaw racial discrimination is underway in Korea. One would pay a fine and get two years in jail for violating it. While it may not pass into law this time around it still represents a big step forward and (if history is any indication, eventually pass. They've already outlawed age discrimination and have set up a system to complain about discrimination at any company with over 100 employers. So it is getting there.
And nobody said that families in Korea were forcing their daughter to marry a white guy. The fact remains that many families are perfectly okay with this. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Sure, you can say, "it's their way, let them do whatever they want. If you don't like it, leave." But then again, why not criticize? I think they need to realize their wrongs. Thats called NOT being a coward.
Your analogy about not discussing religion on here and therefore discriminating against people who are religious is interesting, but we're talking about RACIAL discrimination. Not RELIGIOUS discrimination.
Furthermore, the people who own this website --while being publicly run-- are not required by law to let anyone say anything at all. It's their website. If they wanna run Nazi propaganda or any other kind of thing, it's their call.
Finally, we're not talking about 1st Amendment freedom of speech, we're talking about hiring practices.
So your analogy isn't even comparing apples to oranges (two fruits). It's comparing apples to anti-matter particles (something totally unrelated).
| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think they are), but by your logic Robert Mugabe is a great world leader. |
Your logic and leaps to a conclusion are quite bad. it isnot up to you or any FT to change Korea. That is not your job or purpose here. There are 50,000,000 Koreans who have a rightful say in how their country should be run and what definitions should be used. It is up to them to change.
Keep in mind, America's civil war was not started by other nations or their people sticking their nose into America's sovereign affairs. It was the Americans themselves who got together and decided that something had to be done.
The Koreans do not have to go to war but it is up to them to change their own country. |
Last edited by pest2 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
You need to start learning how to read and stop making responses to things that were never asserted. No one said Korean parents force their daughters to marry white guys! Please re read. My God, I hope you don't teach reading skills. Enough said there.
A bill "underway" is a nice start. Let's see if it passes and furthermore let's see if it's enforced (as so many such 'well meaning bills' in Korea are not. When was the last time you saw a cop pull over a law breaking motorist in Korea?).
You show me one case in which any English school in Korea was sued for not hiring or hiring someone of a given race and I'll personally give you all my years of pension saved up. |
Exactly my point. This wasn't said. So why did you make this comment?
I don't know where you live (are you even in Korea? Last I heard you couldn't wait to leave this country) but I've seen plenty of cops pull over motorists for breaking laws. Not to mention pulling over a few each time they do those drinking/driving checkpoints.
As I said the bill was introduced...as for a school there is no way that someone could prove that he or she was not hired because of race even if it were illegal. That said the same garbage goes on in the West, we just find or invent other reasons. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't have the energy to explain it to you abt parents/daughters. Please re-read more carefully... The other guys cited you on it too.. (sheesh!)
Whereabouts are neither here nor there to this dicussion 
Wow, I wish I had ship won for every car I saw in Korea break a traffic law RIGHT IN FRONT OF A COP CAR. I don't know where in Korea you live, but where i was they weren't pullin anyone over.
Bill in the works is nothing but dreams and stardust til it 1)passes and 2)starts getting enforced.. and thats probably never gonna happen.
I have one way someone could prove they were hired or not: I had to hire for my hakwon when I worked in Korea, and my boss specifically told me to not hire blacks and Asians...If they ever called me to court to testify, of course I wouldn't lie under oath.. and maybe I'd provide the filtering documents I used to weed out blacks and asians.. Of course, thats not something I'm really very stressed out about because of course no hakwon in Korea will EVER be sued for hiring or not hiring someone of a given ethnicity.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
You need to start learning how to read and stop making responses to things that were never asserted. No one said Korean parents force their daughters to marry white guys! Please re read. My God, I hope you don't teach reading skills. Enough said there.
A bill "underway" is a nice start. Let's see if it passes and furthermore let's see if it's enforced (as so many such 'well meaning bills' in Korea are not. When was the last time you saw a cop pull over a law breaking motorist in Korea?).
You show me one case in which any English school in Korea was sued for not hiring or hiring someone of a given race and I'll personally give you all my years of pension saved up. |
Exactly my point. This wasn't said. So why did you make this comment?
I don't know where you live (are you even in Korea? Last I heard you couldn't wait to leave this country) but I've seen plenty of cops pull over motorists for breaking laws. Not to mention pulling over a few each time they do those drinking/driving checkpoints.
As I said the bill was introduced...as for a school there is no way that someone could prove that he or she was not hired because of race even if it were illegal. That said the same garbage goes on in the West, we just find or invent other reasons. |
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Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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but we're talking about RACIAL discrimination. Not RELIGIOUS discrimination.
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So you are splitting hairs now. This is what I didn't want to get into as the analogy was an example only. Makes no difference if it is racial or religious, discrimination is discrimination.
| Quote: |
Furthermore, the people who own this website --while being publicly run-- are not required by law to let anyone say anything at all. It's their website. If they wanna run Nazi propaganda or any other kind of thing, it's their call.
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Doesn't matter if they are or not--IT WAS AN EXAMPLE!!!! get off it ph and there doesn't have to be a law to make an act discrimination.
Your whole post went off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the point being made but I have come to expect that from the posters here. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
but we're talking about RACIAL discrimination. Not RELIGIOUS discrimination.
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So you are splitting hairs now. This is what I didn't want to get into as the analogy was an example only. Makes no difference if it is racial or religious, discrimination is discrimination.
| Quote: |
Furthermore, the people who own this website --while being publicly run-- are not required by law to let anyone say anything at all. It's their website. If they wanna run Nazi propaganda or any other kind of thing, it's their call.
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Doesn't matter if they are or not--IT WAS AN EXAMPLE!!!! get off it ph and there doesn't have to be a law to make an act discrimination.
Your whole post went off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the point being made but I have come to expect that from the posters here. |
You choose your religion (or lack thereof); you don't choose your race. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| You choose your religion (or lack thereof); you don't choose your race. |
Way off the mark and far from the point being made but that's okay, it tells me a lot about you and the others who avoid the point being made. By the way, Darwin was incorrect and genetics have shown him to be wrong about race. There is only 1 race of humans not 4 as he claimed. |
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Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted
Last edited by Deranged Ranger on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You choose your religion (or lack thereof); you don't choose your race. |
Way off the mark and far from the point being made but that's okay, it tells me a lot about you and the others who avoid the point being made. By the way, Darwin was incorrect and genetics have shown him to be wrong about race. There is only 1 race of humans not 4 as he claimed. |
Your point is that they should be able to follow tradition, because it's their country. Some traditions are wrong. To give an extreme example: FGM.
Now, western countries aren't innocent of this, but a boss wouldn't go so far as to say "Don't hire any blacks or Jews," for fear of repercussions if someone recorded them saying it. Idiot racists exist, but at least more and more of them try to hide their prejudice.
On that note, to the OP: keep your head up. You'll find something. I have 3 gyopo friends working here. One eventually got a full-time public-school, tenure-track job after a few years as a contract teacher, one works for a publishing agency as a copy editor, and one works at a decent hagwon. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
Now here is an example. An example only to bring this closer to home. I have no agenda or desire to change the policy here.
In the General Discussion forum is the following message:
| Quote: |
| Threads focusing on religion are not permitted. Attempts to start or promote such threads, including resurrecting inactive religion threads, will be followed by sanctions. |
To follow some peole's logic and the definitions copied in their posts, one could say that Dave's practices discrimination. He doesn't allow religious threads (I am not sure if that ruling applies to all forums or not but for discussion sake I will say it does) and will ban, suspend or whatever any person, especially the religious, who make them active on the board.
Now how would Dave, the moderators and the non-religious posters like it if a bunch of religous people got on here and started to compalin about how the practice is discriminationa and Dave's needs to change (just like all you do to the Korean employers).
What would you say? 1. If you do not like it here at Dave's then leave. Would probably be the top response, 2. It is Dave's forum and he gets to have his preference. Would be #2 or close to it.
Of course the religious people would ignore the preference argument and demand that it is discrimination and Dave and the members need to be jailed, lose the forum, fined, or, in their minds, worse. They would have to allow religious threads to be on the board like every other thread.
The people here would be up in arms in anger, vehemently defending their right to operate this forum as they see fit, after all it is Daves (theirs) and doesn't belong to the religious people.
Do you get the point people or do I have to continue? My question is, why do you deny the Korean people the same rights/practices you demand for yourselves? Who are you to say what the Koreans can or cannot do?
Don't get into color of skin, these are people not threads (people start and participate in threads), or some minute phrase I said to sidetrack from the point being made.
If you are allowed to have preferences then why can't the Korean people? |
I'm pretty sure the reason they don't allow religious discussions is that they ultimately devolve into pissing contests that don't get anywhere. Disallowing religious discussions has as much effect on atheists and agnostics as it does on religious individuals, as people on both sides of the line will shout "you're wrong" at each other. The ban on religious discussions is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm pretty sure the reason they don't allow religious discussions is that they ultimately devolve into pissing contests that don't get anywhere |
That is not the point I am making. it is Dave's forum he can make the rules he wants. You all are avoiding the point I am making because you do not want to see the correlation between what you are doing and the analogy.
| Quote: |
| Disallowing religious discussions has as much effect on atheists and agnostics as it does on religious individuals, as people on both sides of the line will shout "you're wrong" at each other. The ban on religious discussions is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. |
I have been on enough atheist boards and 'christian ' ones where they visit to know that takes place. Again the analogy IS NOT THE SUBJECT of my post. It is an ILLUSTRATION to make a point. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Your point is that they should be able to follow tradition, because it's their country. Some traditions are wrong. To give an extreme example: FGM |
No, that is not my point at all. I would have no idea what FGM stands for.
| Quote: |
| Now, western countries aren't innocent of this, but a boss wouldn't go so far as to say "Don't hire any blacks or Jews," for fear of repercussions if someone recorded them saying it. Idiot racists exist, but at least more and more of them try to hide their prejudice. |
There was a former co-worker of mine who changed jobs years ago. He was the same nationality as the new hagwon's former FT. That previous FT was so bad the owner was hesitant to hire the former co-worker. It took a lot of tap dancing to get the job.
It isn't always racism/discrimination. preference, past experience, and other reasons play a role in the hiring process. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm pretty sure the reason they don't allow religious discussions is that they ultimately devolve into pissing contests that don't get anywhere |
That is not the point I am making. it is Dave's forum he can make the rules he wants. You all are avoiding the point I am making because you do not want to see the correlation between what you are doing and the analogy.
| Quote: |
| Disallowing religious discussions has as much effect on atheists and agnostics as it does on religious individuals, as people on both sides of the line will shout "you're wrong" at each other. The ban on religious discussions is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. |
I have been on enough atheist boards and 'christian ' ones where they visit to know that takes place. Again the analogy IS NOT THE SUBJECT of my post. It is an ILLUSTRATION to make a point. |
Okay, even accepting your analogy (shaky though it may be), your point is still fairly empty. By your logic I can't criticize Pakistani honor killings because that's just the way they do things in Pakistan. |
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