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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Should I jail him? |
| Hell yeah he was asking for it! |
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90% |
[ 67 ] |
| No, you won't get your money any faster |
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9% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 74 |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there a single person who has agreed with you and said "yes we are slaves"? |
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| We already know he's ok with the stealing part. |
I agree with the stealing part. The original poster was used as a slave. A thief just takes what is already there. They don't make you work for it and then not compensate you (that is what a slave owner does). That's what makes it a slave case.
I am done. Either you get it or you don't. Looks like others get it and have posted in harmony with my thoughts, even though they may not have actually used the word "slave". This is probably due to the fact we look at words like slavery, nazism, racial epithets as part of a bigger association.
As a slave, you don't necessarily get abused, but it is the cases of abuse that we remember slavery by. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Slaves didn't endure abuse? If they tried to escape, some were not hanged? Ok. Now I know you lost it. |
Depends. The ancient Greeks held slaves. At the time it was considered boorish to abuse the slave in your keep, and they were generally well treated. Again, a moot point you use to distract from the definition of slavery. To remind you, the definition mentions nothing about abuse. You are referencing YOUR definition, which is wrong.
| koreatimes wrote: |
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| Slaves never "left", at least not in a legal sense. |
Well, duh!!! That's the point I am making. |
No, that's the point I'M making. By law, slaves couldn't leave. By law, E-2 visa holders can leave. Simple as that.
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| They were either freed by someone else or ran away on their own, which was illegal (unlike English teachers). |
Unlike what? English teachers can still do "illegal" things in Korea like leave a school and not get a letter of release. I am not advocating it, but saying it is possible and illegal. Until Korea does away with this letter of release crap, your argument here holds no water. |
A visa run is quite legal. Just another hole in your argument.
| koreatimes wrote: |
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| Immi is giving the employee a way out by waving the 30 day policy if the contract was violated. |
What kind of mixed up logic is that? A hagwon owner abuses their slave, and immigration is so nice they won't make the slave teach another month. How kind and thoughtful of them. Are you calendar in disguise? |
How is legal protection for workers illogical? It's a perfectly reasonable regulation.
| koreatimes wrote: |
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| But that's only 1 very specific situation in which you only want a very specific outcome. |
Very specific? It applies to 100% of the teachers who want to leave. It's useless debating this with you. |
It applies to very few actually, as most either have the means to do the visa run, or are soured by their experience and don't want to remain in the country.
Your argument reads like "We're all slaves because we can't substitute onion rings for fries at McDonald's". There are other ways to get your onion rings or your McDonald's.
| Quote: |
| Who else feels the OP was a slave? |
I never stated the OP was a slave. I was referring to the letter of release, not the OP. Stop making foolish statements and insinuating I made them.[/quote]
So then who are the slaves again? Anyone requiring a letter of release? |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| The original poster was used as a slave.. |
Now this has some truth to it. It is also different from saying someone is a slave. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| The original poster was used as a slave.. |
Now this has some truth to it. It is also different from saying someone is a slave. |
We're done. I had replies before, but now you throw this semantic garbage. Wallow in your letters of release. I am done.
You know what I am talking about, and you are only wasting my time arguing for argument sake. Goodbye. |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Let's just say:
You stole 5 million won from your boss. Your boss knows the probability of you paying him back is around 0.003%, though you most likely have some means to some assets. The authorities tell him that he can have you put in jail if you don't pay him back, now.
The boss has option:
(A) Send you to jail
(B) Send you on your merry way with his money in your pocket
What do you think your boss would do? |
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davai!
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| what happened? |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Think about all the foriegners enticed all the way to Korea with a good job offer only to find out that the owner is a criminal. All that money invested going, gone, so the owners can get some extra bucks illegally. This is a good guy to throw in the pokie. They won't give him enough time in jail. |
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lichtarbeiter
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| davai! wrote: |
| what happened? |
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Pangit
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Pangit wrote: |
| Vix wrote: |
So I tried to sign the contract to jail him today but they have now told me it may not be in my best interests. They have told me he has no assets worth seizing as he doesn't own his car or house. If I jail him he won't be able to work and pay me the frustratingly little he's offering. He did eventually pay that though yesterday. I think I am screwed  |
No assets to his name, can't come up with 5 mil, and owns a business? Smells like a load to me, and he more than likely shifted his assets to someone else. Tell him you're sending him to jail if he doesn't pay what's owed, and give him a deadline. Otherwise, you're going to wait for the money anyway, and I doubt you'll want to stay in the country after this. You'll end up waiting for over a year for 5 mil. Personally, I'd write that 5 mil off, given the unreliability of where it's coming from, and penalize him as much as possible for conning you. |
That's the latest. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| One is wrong for its illegality, the other is wrong because you're actually hurting someone. You seem concerned for the well-being of this man and his family, yet don't consider that such a large amount going unpaid might have been the choice between the OP paying his loans and going hungry. |
So the suffering the wife and children have to go through is not really hurting someone? Your narrow viewpoint is showing.
Remember the OP asked for thoughts and I gave him mine. Sure they disagree with the majority but then one has to look at the whole picture not just one aspect of it. Sure the OP is within his right to send the guy to jail but is it a solution? Will the Owner change his ways or become worse? What ahbout the next FTs who are employed by the guy or his family?
Money is money and it can always be made again but ruin a family it rarely can be put back together again. There is more to this life than money. I am not guaranteeing that the man will change even being given the break, the right thing to do comes with no guarantees, people have free choice and you have to take a risk.
Look I have hagwons who never paid medical, never paid pension, and 'owe' me lots of money but guess what, I never made trouble for them, never went after them and do not intend to. I was disappointed that such things took place but to be a better person one usually takes the loss instead of responding in kind.
These are my thoughts and you and the Op do not have to agree with me but guess what--his friends already do, which means that those who disagree with his friends have a problem or some personal agenda/hate for the Korean people. You all need to examine that point in yourselves and ask why you would be so spiteful against Korean people. |
Your not fighting the Hakwon owner means that other foriegners got screwed. What about some young guy fresh out of college with no credit card and a whole lot of poverty? What if he's sending most of his money home because of student debts? All of a sudden the boss doesn't pay him or maybe gives him a small portion of pay. The waygook stays because he can't leave. The visa process is too complicated and he hopes to get his money soon as he can't avoid a long protracted fight while living on the margins. If more of these scumbags hakwon owners who lie cheat and steal were put in jail, than others wouldn't have to get screwed by them. If he has a family, all the more reason to run his business properly, not resort to lies, not blow the money on singing rooms, and to be a good person. Taking more of these bad hakwon owners off the market does other English teachers a favor and no doubt does the children a great favor by getting rid of these people who don't care about education but only money.
I'd say it depends on how badly you need the money and how much you can get out of him. If you let him pay you 300,000, you might get one or two payments and that's it. If he doesn't have 5 mil, arrange a settlement with him for part of it. Tell him 3 mil in cash by next monday or he goes to jail. Wanna see how quickly he gets the money? Be a shame if he had to sell his BMW to get it. The more of you who stand up to shady hakwon owners, the more it sends a message and cleans them out of the market. If a hakwon owner legitimately ran into money problems because of a bad market or whatever, they should just level with the employee, give them a letter of release, a transistion payment, and let them move on. Integrity needs to be something added to the equation here. |
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Pangit
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| Junk. lol. |
Your not fighting the Hakwon owner means that other foriegners got screwed. What about some young guy fresh out of college with no credit card and a whole lot of poverty? What if he's sending most of his money home because of student debts? All of a sudden the boss doesn't pay him or maybe gives him a small portion of pay. The waygook stays because he can't leave. The visa process is too complicated and he hopes to get his money soon as he can't avoid a long protracted fight while living on the margins. If more of these scumbags hakwon owners who lie cheat and steal were put in jail, than others wouldn't have to get screwed by them. If he has a family, all the more reason to run his business properly, not resort to lies, not blow the money on singing rooms, and to be a good person. Taking more of these bad hakwon owners off the market does other English teachers a favor and no doubt does the children a great favor by getting rid of these people who don't care about education but only money.
I'd say it depends on how badly you need the money and how much you can get out of him. If you let him pay you 300,000, you might get one or two payments and that's it. If he doesn't have 5 mil, arrange a settlement with him for part of it. Tell him 3 mil in cash by next monday or he goes to jail. Wanna see how quickly he gets the money? Be a shame if he had to sell his BMW to get it. The more of you who stand up to shady hakwon owners, the more it sends a message and cleans them out of the market. If a hakwon owner legitimately ran into money problems because of a bad market or whatever, they should just level with the employee, give them a letter of release, a transistion payment, and let them move on. Integrity needs to be something added to the equation here. |
Can't argue with that guy. His account's suspended until Nov. 4. Also, have a look at this. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| I like how they have "opinions" under "news zone". I guess my opinions are also newsworthy then? |
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