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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
This is a really bad comparative study.
Only an dullard could take that report as having any scientific merit.
Somebody must have been smoking crack when they wrote it. |
The first study was published in the May 2004 issue of Health Psychology.
Care to post the methodology and results of your study? |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
Potheads always argue that marijuana is safe. But I bet you also know some burnout who isn't all there anymore. |
Do you actually know any burnouts? Marijuana has a lot to do with their problems, but there's a lot of other stuff going on with these people.
Whatever the case, there are far more people who smoke weed and are completely normal and even successful people.
I hate this lame ass burn out argument. Francis Crick, Steve Jobs, Bob Marley, George Soros, ect.... are or were all cannabis users. What do you have to say about that?
Hell I smoked practically every day for my last two years of university and maintained a 4.0 gpa.
Marijuana burnouts are the exception, and not the norm.
| Quote: |
Compared responses from the marijuana users at age 29 with data from age-matched abstainers, researchers found that abstainers had an overall higher level of educational attainment, better health, greater life satisfaction, and a lower rate of other drug use.
In contrast, those who had reported a relatively high level of marijuana use at age 13 fared significantly worse than all other groups on overall health and yearly earnings. |
Kids shouldn't be using drugs. And any kid who started using drugs or drinking heavily at 13 is going to be messed up. And kids who start experimenting too early (before they've full matured) usually have other problems going on to begin with and are of course going to be worse off.
This is another lame ass argument from the anti-marijuana crowd. Bringing kids into the equation. They're a separate category and should not be linked with adults.
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| Smoking marijuana can cause significant health problems. Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, of which 60 are cannabinoids. Smoking a marijuana cigarette deposits about three to five times more tar into the lungs than one filtered tobacco cigarette. |
Easy solution: use a vaporizer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(cannabis)
Problem solved.
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| Consequently, regular marijuana smokers suffer from many of the same health problems as tobacco smokers, such as chronic coughing and wheezing, chest colds, and chronic bronchitis. In fact, studies show that smoking three to four joints per day causes at least as much harm to the respiratory system as smoking a full pack of cigarettes every day. |
Who smokes 3-4 joints per day. Seriously!
| Quote: |
| Marijuana smoke also contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into malignant cells. |
And yet there hasn�t been one death linked to habitual marijuana use. Not one!
Ponder that one for a second.
No lung cancer associated with pot use. No tar lungs. Nothing.
And again the vaporizer solves all those problems.
One more time: Nobody has ever died from pot. And people have been smoking it for literally thousands of years.
| Quote: |
Mental Health Problems
In addition, smoking marijuana can lead to increased anxiety, panic attacks, depression, social withdrawal, and other mental health problems, particularly for teens. Research shows that kids aged 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely than nonusers to have suicidal thoughts. |
Again kids shouldn�t be using marijuana. Their brain hasn�t full matured.
The anxiety and panic attacks come from two sources. One the illegality of pot creates an underground environment of use which at times causes people to stress out.
Furthermore, marijuana is like looking in a mirror. However, this mirror reflects on your thoughts, desires, fears, dreams, and insecurities.
This can be really stressful for some people. Especially those who aren�t honest with themselves.
But ultimately this is one of the best things about weed. It forces you to be honest with yourself and reflect how you treat others and the world around you.
Some people can handle this. Others can�t. But it�s not the drugs fault. The problem lies within themselves.
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| Marijuana use also can cause cognitive impairment, to include such short-term effects as distorted perception, memory loss, and trouble with thinking and problem solving. |
First off all the short term memory loss isn�t permanent.
And it�s not really memory loss. It�s more the fact that your mind is racing when you�re high. You have so many thoughts going on that it makes some tasks difficult for a short time.
However, this state also opens up a whole other window of potential. And that�s why artists, musicians, poets, and Silicon Valley computer engineers all use pot.
It�s a beautiful substance. But you have to respect it.
And if you�re a kid or have mental problems you should probably stay away from it. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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getting stoned = drug addict
getting drunk = fun guy
Crazy mixed up world.
Unfortunately discussion about weed on this forum = locked/delete discussion.
I agree with everything, because it is everything. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
And yet there hasn�t been one death linked to habitual marijuana use. Not one!
Ponder that one for a second.
One more time: Nobody has ever died from pot. And people have been smoking it for literally thousands of years. |
Learn to research your statements before making a fool of yourself. Try again pothead:
Thomas Geller, MD, Associate Professor of Child Neurology at the Saint Louis University Health Sciences Center, et al., wrote in their article "Cerebellar Infarction in Adolescent Males Associated with Acute Marijuana Use," published in Pediatrics in Apr. 2004:
"Each of the 3 cannabis-associated cases of cerebellar infarction was confirmed by biopsy (1 case) or necropsy (2 cases)... Brainstem compromise caused by cerebellar and cerebral edema led to death in the 2 fatal cases."
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Liliana Bachs, MD, Senior Medical Officer at the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, et al., wrote in their article "Acute Cardiovascular Fatalities Following Cannabis Use," published by Forensic Science International in 2001:
"Cannabis is generally considered to be a drug with very low toxicity. In this paper, we report six cases where recent cannabis intake was associated with sudden and unexpected death. An acute cardiovascular event was the probable cause of death. In all cases, cannabis intake was documented by blood analysis."
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Marijuana use is much more dangerous that believed and hundreds of young people die each year in "accidents" caused by their prolonged use of the drug, according to Britain's most senior coroner.
Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.
"Cannabis is as dangerous as any other drug and people must understand that it kills," said Mr Turner. "From my long experience I can say that it is a very dangerous substance. Increasingly it is mentioned not only as the first drug taken by people who overdose, but also in suicides and accidental deaths.
"It is an awful waste of young lives. People are trying the drug at a very young age. Many go on to harder drugs and I am dealing with more and more heroin overdoses. People can also suffer severe consequences from the cannabis alone, however.
"Bereaved parents say to me, 'We didn't realise how dangerous it was until it was too late, if only we had done something'. It is heartbreaking."
Turner said that stronger varieties of cannabis are now common, leading to physical and mental problems in young people, compared to the pot that was available in the 1960s. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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First of all can you explain the first death you gave an example for? Or did you just google it and past it without really understanding what it was about?
As for the "acute cardiovascular event" what does that even mean? So if a jogger dies from a heart attack do we blame jogging for his/her death?
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An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_deaths_are_due_to_marijuana#ixzz1a42890fg |
This is where your supposed marijuana cases come from.
Be careful where you're getting your facts too Madoka.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhDTAqVIpfk
Please watch this vid. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20030918/marijuana-smoking-doesnt-kill
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Marijuana Smoking Doesn't Kill
Illegal Herb Not Harmless, but Data Show No Link to Death
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Health NewsSept. 18, 2003 -- Marijuana smoking isn't harmless, but at least it won't kill you.
It's been feared that marijuana smoke, like tobacco smoke, causes cancer and heart disease. The evidence argues otherwise, writes Stephen Sidney, MD, associate director for research for Kaiser Permanente, Oakland, Calif., in the Sept 20 issue of The British Medical Journal.
"Although the use of [marijuana] is not harmless, the current knowledge base does not support the assertion that it has any notable adverse public health impact in relation to mortality," Sidney concludes. |
See, I can google too!  |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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So again, show me a case in which marijuana is directly linked to death.
Strokes or heart attacks don't come from smoking weed. They're a by-product of genetics and unhealthy life styles.
So there goes your first two arguments.
Now, could someone who was high while driving a car have died while high? Sure! Just like someone can die while talking on the phone.
But you can't overdose on weed. There has never been a case of lung cancer related to weed. In fact cannibus has cancer fighting properties.
Seriously Madoka, what's your bent against pot? There's something else more to your argument. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
So again, show me a case in which marijuana is directly linked to death.
Strokes or heart attacks don't come from smoking weed. They're a by-product of genetics and unhealthy life styles. |
I understand that you may have lost quite a few brain cells, but marijuana can lead to heart attacks which in turn leads to death. To argue then that marijuana did not result in death is myopic. It's like claiming smoking did not cause death; lung cancer did.
The Institute of Medicine published in its Mar. 1999 report titled "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base":
"The cardiovascular changes [from marijuana use] have not posed a health problem for healthy, young users of marijuana or THC. However, such changes in heart rate and blood pressure could present a serious problem for older patients, especially those with coronary arterial or cerebrovascular disease.
Cardiovascular diseases are the leading causes of death in the United States (coronary heart disease is first; stroke is third), so any effect of marijuana use on cardiovascular disease could have a substantial impact on public health. The magnitude of the impact remains to be determined as chronic marijuana users from the late 1960s enter the age when coronary arterial and cerebrovascular diseases become common.
Smoking marijuana is also known to decrease maximal exercise performance. That, with the increased heart rate, could theoretically induce angina, so, this raises the possibility that patients with symptomatic coronary artery disease should be advised not to smoke marijuana, and THC might be contraindicated in patients with restricted cardiovascular function."
And for the record, I got friends who smoke and I know several burnouts. Hell, I have a friend who owns a marijuana dispensary and another that became a pastor in a marijuana smoking church in an attempt to legally continue smoking. Still doesn't mean that it's not a health hazard no matter how much you want to fool yourself. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| everything-is-everything wrote: |
So again, show me a case in which marijuana is directly linked to death.
Strokes or heart attacks don't come from smoking weed. They're a by-product of genetics and unhealthy life styles. |
I understand that you may have lost quite a few brain cells, but marijuana can lead to heart attacks which in turn leads to death. To argue then that marijuana did not result in death is myopic. It's like claiming smoking did not cause death; lung cancer did.
The Institute of Medicine published in its Mar. 1999 report titled "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base":
"The cardiovascular changes [from marijuana use] have not posed a health problem for healthy, young users of marijuana or THC. However, such changes in heart rate and blood pressure could present a serious problem for older patients, especially those with coronary arterial or cerebrovascular disease.
Cardiovascular diseases are the leading causes of death in the United States (coronary heart disease is first; stroke is third), so any effect of marijuana use on cardiovascular disease could have a substantial impact on public health. The magnitude of the impact remains to be determined as chronic marijuana users from the late 1960s enter the age when coronary arterial and cerebrovascular diseases become common.
Smoking marijuana is also known to decrease maximal exercise performance. That, with the increased heart rate, could theoretically induce angina, so, this raises the possibility that patients with symptomatic coronary artery disease should be advised not to smoke marijuana, and THC might be contraindicated in patients with restricted cardiovascular function."
And for the record, I got friends who smoke and I know several burnouts. Hell, I have a friend who owns a marijuana dispensary and another that became a pastor in a marijuana smoking church in an attempt to legally continue smoking. Still doesn't mean that it's not a health hazard no matter how much you want to fool yourself. |
This may be a lost cause...but here goes.
Madoka...you do understand the difference between correlative and causal...yes?
If someone dies from heart disease...and was smoking pot...it doesn't mean the pot caused the death.
Many factors contributed to the death...some may be causal...some correlative...and science is working to figure these out.
To suggest that pot is causing these diseases seems a stretch of the imagination...even for pot smokers.
Cigarettes and alcohol have been proven to cause diseases.
From your own article...they state it might not be good for people with heart diseases....well no shit Sherlock...but pot didn't cause those diseases...it is quite likely that cigarettes and alcohol did...or to be even more honest...an abuse of sugar and salt and a prolonged acidic blood stream.
This debate...initially started as pot not being as harmful as cigarettes and alcohol.
I am in no way suggesting that it doesn't have harmful effects when abused...especially by children.(but any argument from this point is daft...any drug abused at a young age is going to be harmful.)
Salt is a poison when abused.
I agree with you that when abused, it is definitely a hazard to health.
As has already been mentioned, there are ways to limit, if not eliminate those health hazards.
There are benefits to be gained from this plant, and to dismiss it as a health hazard is illogical to say the least.
Anyway...you need to lighten up...perhaps light up to lighten up. 
Why does it always seem that the ones who most vilify this natural herb seem to be the ones who could most benefit from it? |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Those with a hall monitor mentality will never understand the underlying principle of civil liberty, which is at the heart of choice regarding any substance that alters reality. Weed is bad and alcohol good is arbitrary at best.
So there really is nothing to gain by entering into a discussion with the likes of Madoka, whose thinking is as vacuous and annoying as his avatar.
Besides you will find that this site will support those against demon weed, but will lock the discussion once their preferred side begins to lose ground. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
I understand that you may have lost quite a few brain cells, |
I love how you used the good old "loosing brain cells argument" especially when I earlier posted a video showing how this argument was basically a lie promoted by the Regan administration.
Again, please watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhDTAqVIpfk
The Heat/Tulen study under President Regan in the 1980s came forth with the conclusion that smoking marijuana killed brain cells.
The administration and other "special interest" groups ran with this argument and promoted it so heavily to the point where it became an accepted fact and a key argument against marijuana.
The thing is the whole study was based on a lie.
Basically the initial study was based on giving chimps the equivalent of 30 joints a day. After 90 days those chimps started to die and further examination showed dead brain cells.
30 joints a day! That's crazy, but this experiment released their results and claimed that marijuana does in fact kill brain cells.
However, 6 years after the study was released and after requests for more disclosure about the experiment it was found that the chimps actually were not given the equivalent of 30 joints per day, but instead the equivalent of 63 joints within 5 minutes through a gas mask daily over three months.
They basically suffocated the chimps. And that's what killed the brain cells. Not the marijuana.
The government and the study lied to the public.
So marijuana does not kill brain cells.
| Quote: |
| but marijuana can lead to heart attacks which in turn leads to death. To argue then that marijuana did not result in death is myopic. It's like claiming smoking did not cause death; lung cancer did. |
My uncle had a heart attack while walking up a flight of stairs.
So with your logic walking up walking up stairs kills! |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Everything is everything, cousin.
Doka, you've been duped about this issue.
Cain might have said, 'brainwashed'.
I imagine you're quite an intelligent individual though.
If Can. were legalized, an insurmountable # of
industries would go kapootz! thereby, giving up their stranglehold
and dominance in the world today.
Cotton industry - collapse
Oil industry - much less dependent
Pharm industry - Kaplow!
Cancer research would take a whole new direction
Lumber industry - yaH! fewer trees being chopped down.
Dairy/Beef - ok longshot
There's a reason that the powers have made it illegal.
Not the ones you've been brainwashed to believe. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| itistime wrote: |
Everything is everything, cousin.
If Can. were legalized, an insurmountable # of
industries would go kapootz! thereby, giving up their stranglehold
and dominance in the world today.
Cotton industry - collapse
Oil industry - much less dependent
Pharm industry - Kaplow!
Cancer research would take a whole new direction
Lumber industry - yaH! fewer trees being chopped down.
Dairy/Beef - ok longshot
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dont understand. at all. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| pugwall wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
Everything is everything, cousin.
If Can. were legalized, an insurmountable # of
industries would go kapootz! thereby, giving up their stranglehold
and dominance in the world today.
Cotton industry - collapse
Oil industry - much less dependent
Pharm industry - Kaplow!
Cancer research would take a whole new direction
Lumber industry - yaH! fewer trees being chopped down.
Dairy/Beef - ok longshot
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dont understand. at all. |
I understand and I agree. That's why the FDA won't approve natural herbs or alternative medicine; they can't trademark it and make money off of it. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| What does that have to do with the lumber industry? |
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