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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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Can't gyopos have both accents at the same time? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| carleverson wrote: |
| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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Can't gyopos have both accents at the same time? |
Got to agree with proverbs here.
Not from Cali, but unless someone was born, or came in elementary or earlier, they usually have a noticeable accent. The ones born, and who grew up, in an English speaking country do not have foreign accents. |
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overdrive2023x
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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You're kinda misinterpreting what I mean. But then again it's probably my fault, because I didn't develop it enough.
The accent is micro-small and has more to do with RHYTHM. Don't think of it as something like the difference between an Aussie English accent and a American English accent. It's nothing like that. The best example I can give again is 2nd generation hispanics, that were born here, but grew up speaking Spanish until they entered school. They were still so young that when they learned they sound purely American, but there's a small hint of a different kind of accent still present because they're still using a little bit of the RHYTHM of Spanish (their first spoken language) to speak English. Only Americans can pick it out, and they have to have a very highly tuned ear to hear different American accents, dialects, etc.
Think of it being as small as differentiating Northern Californians from Southern Californians (and not using "hella" as a deciding factor). Both of Socal and Norcal people have American accents, as well as California accents, but there's another little micro difference between how we speak (barring vocabulary and slang differences. Most people that don't study it, can't hear the difference, but you can't deny that there is not a difference.
I talked about this actually last week with a 3rd generation Japanese guy at my work (3rd generation meaning his grandparents came to the US, his parents were born in the US). He agreed and started talking to me about interesting differences with the difference between ghis family's generations.
All of this is really interesting stuff, and fun to learn about.
So like I said, I'm not trying to offend Gyopos, and say they speak differently. I'm just pointing out that there is a difference, but that Korean school employers blow it out of proportion and make it a reason to put priority on Whites rather than Gyopos (which would make more sense considering the employer who is most likely Korean could communicate in Korean, and then have that person work in English). |
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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| carleverson wrote: |
| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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Can't gyopos have both accents at the same time? |
Got to agree with proverbs here.
Not from Cali, but unless someone was born, or came in elementary or earlier, they usually have a noticeable accent. The ones born, and who grew up, in an English speaking country do not have foreign accents. |
and you're wrong |
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braindrops
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| overdrive is talking about anjelah johnson in nail salon... |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| carleverson wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| carleverson wrote: |
| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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Can't gyopos have both accents at the same time? |
Got to agree with proverbs here.
Not from Cali, but unless someone was born, or came in elementary or earlier, they usually have a noticeable accent. The ones born, and who grew up, in an English speaking country do not have foreign accents. |
and you're wrong |
Please elaborate... |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think it all falls down to whether or not a kyopo male speaks Korean very well to fluency or near fluency.
Kyopo guys I've known who speak no Korean usually work at hakwans earning a little less than their 'main 7' peers. Or they work at public school jobs and do okay.
Kyopo guys I've known who speak very good korean always without fail have jobs in the esl market that are very lucrative (working in the esl media, publishing, marketing, or very high paying adult / returnee gigs, often with management duties etc) and often have private gigs too that make me want to puke when I hear how much they make lol. Seems like they wrok crazy damn hours and have more 'real world job' responsibilities, but yeah they can make damned good coin (I'd say more than a caucasian married to a Korean even) if they work hard (and I must say they do seem to work hard hours and often have to do all the extra hours for soju dinners etc, but hey if the money is good...)
Anyone agree / disagree with those 2 categorisations? |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| overdrive2023x wrote: |
Here is my opinion:
Im an adoptee from Korea, and grew up in a white American family in California with both white brothers and sisters. The funny thing I've always dealt with, is that when I interview over the phone and then show up in person, there's always a sort of confused look. The voice, the name, the personality, usually doesn't fit the employer's profile of what a Korean or Asian American male is.
But the truth is, I don't consider myself Korean-American. A Korean American to me is someone that grew up in a Korean household, with Korean parents, and has some exposure to the Korean language.
I can understand why some Korean schools see Gyopo's as a bad investment. First is, appearance. Especially when in the case of Hagwons, the paying parents want their school to be giving them a genuine and high quality English experience. If I went to a Japanese language school in the US, and my teacher was Australian, I would feel jipped. We want the authentic thing. Much like when we go to ethnic restaurant, and find out the cooks in the back aren't of the restaurant's ethnic image. Be honest, if you wen to an Asian restaurant, and saw Mexican cooks in the back, you'd feel the food was not as authentic. So in essence, we (as westerners) think the exact same way as these Korean school and parents do.
Besides appearance, Koreans are also aware of the accent difference with Korean Americans. Korean Americans (as well as any other 2nd generation children born to migrating parents) GENERALLY have an accent difference. It's might be hard to notice at first, but after you meet a a good amount of them, you'll start to hear it to. As much as i'm sure Koreans-Americans want to deny it, it is noticeable. It depends of course what language was more spoken more at home when they were growing up. For those in California, Mexican-Americans that grew up speaking Spanish at home, also have the micro accent difference, and I'm sure most growing up in California know what I'm talking about. Koreans are not exempt, and Korean school employers back in Korea are aware of it; though they think its dramatically a bigger difference than it actually is.
So I think Koreans want Caucasian/White teachers for those reasons. When it comes down to it, they would rather not have to deal with parents inquiring and questioning whether their child's teacher is giving them a genuine English experience. |
I'm a Cali-born gyopo and I don't speak English with any sort of accent. My English is flawless, and I'm very well-spoken and articulate - if you spoke to me on the phone, you'd probably think my name was John Smith from Los Angeles, CA. However, I do know many Cali gyopos who speak English with an accent...even though they were born and raised in the States and went to the same Ivy League school as myself. Yeah, I have any Ivy League degree...you'd be amazed at what Koreans are willing to overlook for an Ivy League degree. Just the facts!
Have you been to Los Angeles? Hispanics (not just Mexicans) work in every kitchen in every restaurant in the city. They are chefs, prep cooks waiters and busboys. If I walked into a restaurant in Los Angeles and didn't see a Hispanic person in the kitchen, I'd be shocked.
My point? It's all relative. And I wish some people on this board (not necessarily YOU) would stop making generalizations about gyopos. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| proverbs wrote: |
an F4 visa is awesome if you were born in the States and are perfectly bilingual. then the doors open up like crazy. you can get bilingual teaching jobs or work in a corporate setting.
Freakstar, you graduated from an IVY league school. i would hope that you would be making 6-figures by now. you studied hard and earned it. but honestly, you should be making a lot of dough wherever you are with that kind of background.
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
i believe the teaching market is pretty much split in two - you can be a Korean bilingual English teacher or a 'white' English teacher. |
Yeah, my Ivy league degree didn't hurt. Neither did the fact that I could speak Korean and also read and write to a certain extent. Four years later, I may not be perfectly fluent, but you wouldn't know I'm a gyopo in a room full of Koreans. I blend right in and am accepted as an equal by my wife, her family, my co-workers and all my other Korean peers.
A resourceful gyopo with a good head on his/her shoulders who can learn the language and adapt to certain social customs will do just fine in Korea. |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| The benefits of an F4 visa more than make up for whatever problems you may have. |
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proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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F4 gyopo born in the States and bilingual = high value
F4 gyopo not bilingual = very low value in the ESL market
overdrive you are not offending anyone, i just don't see what you're saying. are you from southern cali? i was born and raised in the OC/LA area. i think the difference when you point out the spanish people, is that they are FLUENT and use spanish everyday with their family. when my gyopo friends try and speak Korean to their parents, they sound like like slightly retarded 3 year old children. its bad because they never really developed it - they only spoke in English. if you were to talk to a gyopo over the phone from Texas or Georgia or wherever, i don't think you would be able to tell that they were asian. there might be a slight difference for some gyopos (born in the states), but not for the majority.
and the accent is definitely not the reason why the schools don't hire gyopos - its because they want 'white' people for the image of the school. this is pretty obvious. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| overdrive2023x wrote: |
| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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You're kinda misinterpreting what I mean. But then again it's probably my fault, because I didn't develop it enough.
The accent is micro-small and has more to do with RHYTHM. Don't think of it as something like the difference between an Aussie English accent and a American English accent. It's nothing like that. The best example I can give again is 2nd generation hispanics, that were born here, but grew up speaking Spanish until they entered school. They were still so young that when they learned they sound purely American, but there's a small hint of a different kind of accent still present because they're still using a little bit of the RHYTHM of Spanish (their first spoken language) to speak English. Only Americans can pick it out, and they have to have a very highly tuned ear to hear different American accents, dialects, etc.
Think of it being as small as differentiating Northern Californians from Southern Californians (and not using "hella" as a deciding factor). Both of Socal and Norcal people have American accents, as well as California accents, but there's another little micro difference between how we speak (barring vocabulary and slang differences. Most people that don't study it, can't hear the difference, but you can't deny that there is not a difference.
I talked about this actually last week with a 3rd generation Japanese guy at my work (3rd generation meaning his grandparents came to the US, his parents were born in the US). He agreed and started talking to me about interesting differences with the difference between ghis family's generations.
All of this is really interesting stuff, and fun to learn about.
So like I said, I'm not trying to offend Gyopos, and say they speak differently. I'm just pointing out that there is a difference, but that Korean school employers blow it out of proportion and make it a reason to put priority on Whites rather than Gyopos (which would make more sense considering the employer who is most likely Korean could communicate in Korean, and then have that person work in English). |
I agree with overdrive2023x. I'm a gyopo but I know too many gyopos in LA and in Korea who speak with a slight accent - most may not even notice it but put them on the phone and you'd be able to tell that the gyopo on the other end of the line is "ethnic." It's hard to explain.
I've actually been told by other gyopos that I have no accent and sound just like a "white dude"...and my response is always the same: I was born and raised in Los Angeles - why would I have an accent? |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| proverbs wrote: |
F4 gyopo born in the States and bilingual = high value
F4 gyopo not bilingual = very low value in the ESL market
overdrive you are not offending anyone, i just don't see what you're saying. are you from southern cali? i was born and raised in the OC/LA area. i think the difference when you point out the spanish people, is that they are FLUENT and use spanish everyday with their family. when my gyopo friends try and speak Korean to their parents, they sound like like slightly retarded 3 year old children. its bad because they never really developed it - they only spoke in English. if you were to talk to a gyopo over the phone from Texas or Georgia or wherever, i don't think you would be able to tell that they were asian. there might be a slight difference for some gyopos (born in the states), but not for the majority.
and the accent is definitely not the reason why the schools don't hire gyopos - its because they want 'white' people for the image of the school. this is pretty obvious. |
proverbs, I disagree with your first paragraph above. Then again, our difference of opinion can be explained by different experiences and I'm not negating yours.
I fully agree with your sentiment in your second paragraph. The accent - whether it exists or not - isn't the reason why some schools won't hire gyopos. Again, I can't relate to being discriminated against for being a gyopo because I never experienced such discrimination, but I'm sure that it exists. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Riker wrote: |
| The benefits of an F4 visa more than make up for whatever problems you may have. |
In my experience, this has always been the case.  |
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proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Freakstar - you have to admit - your LA gyopo friends that have the accent only hang out with other Koreans (many of them not actually born in LA) and have parents that can barely speak any English because they run a business in LA where they don't actually have to speak English - in which they talk to their parents almost fluently in Korean. in this case, yes, these gypops have accents. |
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