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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| proverbs wrote: |
| Freakstar - you have to admit - your LA gyopo friends that have the accent only hang out with other Koreans (many of them not actually born in LA) and have parents that can barely speak any English because they run a business in LA where they don't actually have to speak English - in which they talk to their parents almost fluently in Korean. in this case, yes, these gypops have accents. |
I have a sister and a brother - we were all born and raised in Los Angeles by the same parents and until college, we attended the same schools. My sister and brother both speak with slight accents. Again, their accents may not be discernable to every ear, but even they themselves have admitted that I speak like a "white dude." Go figure. And no, they aren't fluent in Korean either. My sister's Korean isn't bad, but my brother's Korean is awful.
I also have two really good gyopo friends from college - we were all born in the States and we all attended the same Ivy League school, yet I'm the only one who's been accused of speaking like a "white dude." Thank God I don't speak Korean like a white dude. 
Anyway, maybe it has to do with the fact that growing up, my peers consisted of Koreans as well as "white dudes," East Indians (my best friend's name is Anil), Latinos and every other race under the sun whereas my sister mostly hung out with Koreans in high school, and so did my brother. That's not to say that my sister's or brother's slight accents have limited them in any way - my sister works in finance and she still speaks with a weird KA accent, but even though times are tough, she still makes a quarter million US...in a bad year, and twice as much in a good year. I'm an underachiever compared to my sister. |
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braindrops
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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who really knows why some people can't banish their accents and some can? pretty much all of the "evidence" being thrown around here is anecdotal. i have a friend who was born and raised in korea but moved to america when he was 10, and has been there ever since. he was senior class president of his high school, went to a top ivy, where he graduated s.c.l. in three years, and went straight away into high finance, working for the firm that was (and still is) whitest-of-the-white-shoe. now he's a veep of the trading desk at a tier-one hedge fund in the states...all by age 26.
and yet he still speaks english with a heavy korean accent. what's to explain this? it sure wasn't for lack of exposure to english, what with his sloan mba-toting, insurance-company-heading pop and his fellow ivy league banker brother both speaking perfect english.
then again, there are others who arrive later and adopt english far quicker. i worked at a top law institution here in korea and two of my co-workers spoke english perfectly. for one of them, it took me about forty minutes of conversation before i realized that she might be non-native (the ever-telling awkwardly-phrased construction). and that was the easy one. with the other, who was my officemate after an internship at kim & chang and a clerkship at the supreme court, it took me three full weeks before i caught on. grammar, intonation, collocations, vocabulary, facility with language...spot-on. it took her three weeks before she misplaced an article on a non-count noun.
what's the connection? i don't know. both were female. the one whom i discovered as non-native within an hour, she tried to pass herself off as american, but it turned out that she'd only been living in america for three years. the other, the more impressive one, HAD NEVER LIVED OUTSIDE OF KOREA. she hadn't even attended one of the fancy schmancy international schools, either. i passed her off (with great scientific rigor on my part, i might add, hehe) as a freak of nature.
so what am i getting at? look, this whole "micro-accent" thing is fascinating...but all we're left with is vague generalizations and (as above) the occasional freak outliers, nothing more.
freakstar, having shared your insights, i have a question...when do you have time to play ball, what with a family and a high-powered corporate job? was your major at your ivy in time management?  |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| overdrive2023x wrote: |
| proverbs wrote: |
overdrive, im also from California. you must not know many gyopos that were born in the States. out of the hundreds of gyopos i know, they have an American accent when they speak Korean, not the other way around.
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You're kinda misinterpreting what I mean. But then again it's probably my fault, because I didn't develop it enough.
The accent is micro-small and has more to do with RHYTHM. Don't think of it as something like the difference between an Aussie English accent and a American English accent. It's nothing like that. The best example I can give again is 2nd generation hispanics, that were born here, but grew up speaking Spanish until they entered school. They were still so young that when they learned they sound purely American, but there's a small hint of a different kind of accent still present because they're still using a little bit of the RHYTHM of Spanish (their first spoken language) to speak English. Only Americans can pick it out, and they have to have a very highly tuned ear to hear different American accents, dialects, etc.
Think of it being as small as differentiating Northern Californians from Southern Californians (and not using "hella" as a deciding factor). Both of Socal and Norcal people have American accents, as well as California accents, but there's another little micro difference between how we speak (barring vocabulary and slang differences. Most people that don't study it, can't hear the difference, but you can't deny that there is not a difference.
I talked about this actually last week with a 3rd generation Japanese guy at my work (3rd generation meaning his grandparents came to the US, his parents were born in the US). He agreed and started talking to me about interesting differences with the difference between ghis family's generations.
All of this is really interesting stuff, and fun to learn about.
So like I said, I'm not trying to offend Gyopos, and say they speak differently. I'm just pointing out that there is a difference, but that Korean school employers blow it out of proportion and make it a reason to put priority on Whites rather than Gyopos (which would make more sense considering the employer who is most likely Korean could communicate in Korean, and then have that person work in English). |
There are plenty of gyopos with slight accents that you mention. Hispanics as well.
There are some, of course, that have very white accents as well. But I'd say the majority have a slight accent. I can immediately tell over the phone if I'm speaking to a Korean-American or not.
I'm a gyopo, btw. |
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pkjh
Joined: 23 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
But I'd say the majority have a slight accent. I can immediately tell over the phone if I'm speaking to a Korean-American or not.
I'm a gyopo, btw. |
Talk to me over the phone, I doubt you could tell I am a 2nd generation gyopo. It must be a California thing, 'cause my experience is much different. A few of my cousins were born in Alaska before ending up in Canada, and they have no accent and almost don't know their Korean names. Actually one of them eventually ended up in California for grad school and has been there for the last 30 years and even has developed a Southern Californian accent (although he was born somewhere in Washington state). If I spoke Korean you'd think I'm some whitie. My Korean pronunciation ain't that hot, unless I mumble quietly.
I from Canada BTW. |
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Freakstar
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| pkjh wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
But I'd say the majority have a slight accent. I can immediately tell over the phone if I'm speaking to a Korean-American or not.
I'm a gyopo, btw. |
Talk to me over the phone, I doubt you could tell I am a 2nd generation gyopo. It must be a California thing, 'cause my experience is much different. A few of my cousins were born in Alaska before ending up in Canada, and they have no accent and almost don't know their Korean names. Actually one of them eventually ended up in California for grad school and has been there for the last 30 years and even has developed a Southern Californian accent (although he was born somewhere in Washington state). If I spoke Korean you'd think I'm some whitie. My Korean pronunciation ain't that hot, unless I mumble quietly.
I from Canada BTW. |
Maybe it is a Cali gyopo thing. The Greater Los Angeles area is one of the few cities outside of Korea where Koreans can live as if they were still in Korea. I know many Koreans of my parents' generation who have lived in LA for close to 40 years and are naturalized US citizens yet they still bank with local Korean banks, shop at Korean supermarkets and do most of their business with Korean merchants....which is why many immigrants can get by with speaking very little English even after 40 years in the States. Nothing to be proud of.
Anyway, when you have Korean-Americans born and raised on American soil mixing with Koreans from the motherland on a daily basis, lines get blurred...and so do accents I guess. Walk around in Koreatown and you'll hear accented English of varying degrees coming at you from every direction from Koreans who moved there a year ago...or 40 years ago...and those who've lived there all their lives. Not every K-A from LA speaks English with an accent but I daresay that most do. In some cases, the accent is ever so slight...but I can hear it. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Its real simple:
English Teaching:
Gyopo Male is at a disadvantage. Especially to F2 and gyopo females.
Any other job:
Your success depends on your Korean ability. Basically, if your Korean is good enough where you can translate a Korean news article to English with ease (or vice versa) then you have a LOT of opportunity.
There are few, and VERY few jobs in Korea where you can get by without Korean. |
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tran.huongthu
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I've seen PLENTY of gyopo or F-visa only jobs advertised recently, in fact it seems as though Korea is starting to prefer gyopos because they feel more comfortable around them and can use them in some instances to recruit. So no I don't feel sorry for you guys. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| tran.huongthu wrote: |
| I've seen PLENTY of gyopo or F-visa only jobs advertised recently, in fact it seems as though Korea is starting to prefer gyopos because they feel more comfortable around them and can use them in some instances to recruit. So no I don't feel sorry for you guys. |
I've seen plenty of them too. The locations are in Daegu, Gwangju, Busan, etc...
Those ADs are deceiving aren't they? I should know, I'm looking for more work and everytime I click on an AD that says F4 gyopo, I read the details it it will either say Female only, or the position is outside of Seoul. For someone who lives in the heart of Seoul, commuting 1-2 hours a day for a job isn't really economical.... |
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