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nstick13
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about you guys, but I think the US system is equally as competitive. There it's not just about entrance, though, it's about scholarships. And we may not value "studying" as much, but extra-curriculars are critical to our university process.
My senior year of HS, typical day:
6 AM - (some days) to school to lift for basketball
7 AM - go to school for some type of choir/band rehearsal
8 AM - School Starts
12:30 PM - Lunch, eat in 10 min, about 20 min of some
3 PM - School's out, off to basketball or marching band or drama practice or various other practice.
6 PM - Off to show choir/NHS/other meeting
8:30 PM - Home
I didn't do much HW. Fortunately was reasonably smart. Slept a lot in class. Didn't eat too well. Was pretty much stressed all the time. Can also throw in piano lessons to the mix, and random one-off activities. Didn't have much of a social life, went on very few dates. Slept most weekends away.
Some could argue that's more fun because I'm choosing what I do and basketball is better than studying. I don't totally disagree, but it could've been worse. I only wanted to go to Ohio State. I'd have felt more pressure and ended up if I wanted to go to an Ivy League type school, or a school I didn't think my parents could afford. All we hear is "extra-curriculars are important. be well-rounded! be diverse!" That leads to 14 hour days at school too.
Imagine if I had done homework...
Am I the exception here? I'm surprised I haven't seen other stories like this. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| zeppelin wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
The article was terrible, misleading and written badly. I see nothing wrong with the Korean educational system but those that do, seek pleasure over hard work anyways so their comments mean little.
They are not being 'robbed' of those 'teen years', they are studying and working hard to be successful later in life. Those that don't usually inherit the farm or orchard or go to work in other fields. The system is fine and doesn't need interference by westerners. |
Even the majority of Korean people agree that the education system needs to be reformed. Every kid competing for a place at one of 3 Universities is a recipe for disaster.
A lot of the people I speak to involved in education agree that the public school education system needs to improve. |
Nah, they can't listen to Americans at least - they have the worst education system of the foreigners in Korea. It's just a rope-a-dope to get Koreans to reform trheir education so they can turn them into little fat brats like over there. |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you."  |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
Yeah 11 hours a day "studying" is not enough..make them do more. |
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whatisinmyhead
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| If Koreans closed the public schools tomorrow, the quality of education in Korea would rise and the children would have more time to sleep, play and engage in real learning. |
If Koreans closed public schools, then new hagwons will take their place. |
Exactly. And those public school teachers with ability would teach in or own some of them. As a result, the quality of education in Korea would rise from the first day following the end of public schools. |
It's an endless cycle, then Koreans will consider those hagwons less superior and send their kids to more hagwons. And would leave the poor uneducated.
Public schools should stay, the government has got to focus its battle on changing attitudes, not hagwons. It's a cultural shift that needs to happen. But there could be a negative catch to allowing kids more time. Do you really want a bunch of bored Korean teens hanging around dark street corners hassling people for money? Maybe parents should send their kids to hagwons where students can really pursue hobbies, instead parents pushing them into areas that don't interest them. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Zackback wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Zackback wrote: |
Hey that's me!
Well...let's just say I am part of an internal subversion program. I let my students sleep in class and do very little studying at all. I let them talk about any subject they want using any types of words they want. I let them eat and drink (not booze) in class and sometimes even supply the goods.
My class is often more like a party and a hangout than anything else.
I think they are having fun.
As one student of mine once told me, "I NEVER had a teacher like you." |
I actually approve of this. I mean, in a perfect world you would get fired ASAP but given the way the situation is, I'm glad those kids have at least one place they can go to relax. Just don't do this in a PS. |
i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
Yeah 11 hours a day "studying" is not enough..make them do more. |
great rebuttal. |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| I know since you offered nothing to counter it. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| If Koreans closed the public schools tomorrow, the quality of education in Korea would rise and the children would have more time to sleep, play and engage in real learning. |
THIS X3
Let's look at the Korean education during the Japanese Colonialism. All of the Korean-run elementary/middle schools at that time were privately funded, albeit poorly financed.
Let's look at the (South) Korean education during the Korean War. The American-funded public education system had literally collapsed.
Let's look at the Park Cheong-hui dictatorial era around the 1970s. Park Cheong-hui had supported the majority of private schools to have close bonds with the prestigious SKY universities to maintain his power structure.
South Koreans will still have this "public schools are crap" mindset forever. It can't be changed whether you like it or not. But I should mention this. Roh Mu-hyeon was the first and the ONLY leader to properly fund Korean public schools.
As a gyopo with a South Korean father, I believe ontheway's opinion is right.
And jvalmer would say "ignore this guy" just like last time.  [/u] |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
If Koreans closed public schools, then new hagwons will take their place. It won't stop kids being kept awake until 1am. Korean/Asian moms are super competitive, and if little Min-ju's friend is going to a hagwon, he'll be going to one too. It's all about giving their kid that extra 'edge'. Or more like hoping their kid doesn't fall behind.
It will only change when parents realize that not every kid can become a highly paid professional. |
This, this and this.
You can knock North American parents all day about their lack of educational values but Korean parents also need to wake up because they aren't any better. The hyper-competitiveness of many Korean mothers is borderline abusive. Not every kid is going to make six figures plus and ensure upper class mobility, status and prestige for the family name which really seems to be what many parents only care about. North American parents can also be guilty of this as well, but come on. Until parents change their attitudes nothing is going to change. Many Kids will still get pushed to study 10 hours a day. |
I spend many hours counseling parents regarding their children's ability levels, their strengths and weaknesses, career goals, and realistic educational and career expectations. Most Korean parents are quite aware of the ability levels of their children. They do not have the unrealistic views (another Dave's myth without foundation) commonly assumed by posters on Dave's - who have never spent any time actually engaged with helping real Korean parents.
Most Korean parents just want their children to be able to achieve their own personal best. They have no interest in pushing them toward impossible goals. They want them to have a full childhood including play time. However, they realize that to become the best they can be requires effort and additional focused education at the only learning centers that actually teach - hogwans (plus a handful of the private and international schools). And, as in most modern societies with rising incomes, Korean children have fewer children and are able to focus more attention, time and money on each one. |
I too have worked closely with Korean parents and students. I have seen a much darker side than you. I have had students uncontrollably sob for missing 1 or 2 questions out of 100 for the midterm exams. Students tell me they get beat for missing exam questions. During vacations I have had 10 year old students go to the US for Ivy League college tours and then return with a bunch of Harvard pencils and erasers and pass them out to classmates. Ever wonder why so many 6 year old Korean kids want to be dentists when they grow up? Think that doesn't come from the parents. I had one boy literally have a nervous breakdown when he missed a word during a spelling bee. He collapsed and was hyperventilating. His mom had to come up and pick him up off the floor in front of hundreds of people. I had a mom keep her kid out of school because the student didn't get a sticker the previous day. I have had multiple parents threaten to quit the hogwon if their child didn't get the role in the class play that they thought they deserved. One boy had a 30 minute break between classes at my hogwon. The mother hired an outside tutor to come in and teach him for that short amount of time instead of giving him a little break.
You say these parents have no interest in pushing their kids to impossible goals. I say you are wrong. These poor shlub salarymen arent spending 50-60-70% of their take home pay sending kids to hogwon just because they want their kids to be "the best little Minsoo they can be". |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Kids tend to have no lives if they have parents who don't have lives of their own, and try to compensate by living through their children. The mindset of the society needs to change. Parents need to realize what they are doing isn't only ineffective and inefficient for learning but in some ways dangerous for their kids.
Radcon is on the money. Even Korean people admit that kids here are studying machines with little to no free time. This more with true upper-middle class families from my observations. I know because I was brought up the same way. I'm not going to judge my parents but I didn't have a lot of time to myself to play or excercise. Often times I made free time by going to bed late. I got beat for not doing homework or not getting good grades. Both my teachers and my parents. I'd hoped perhaps the newer generation were going to be different but I know kids who have it even worse than I did. I know 7 year olds who are being "education" by the time they wake up to when they go to bed at midnight.
I've always thought our current public education system was like a factory that pumped out "acceptable" citizens rather than it being an enstablishment for enlightenment. This is because schools were modeled after factories during the Industrial Revolution. The US is no better than Korea when it comes to teaching, but I did have more of a life as a highschool kid in the US than in Korea. At least I had that, you know. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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i don't. and people wonder why foreign teachers are considered lazy and useless.
i'd rather have my kids respect me for taking their education seriously and being strict rather than being the popular, "cool", teacher. |
It may be perceived as lazy, but really, what is learning? I sure as don't find memorizing and regurgitating selected pieces of information produced by the authorities to be "learning." In Zackback's class they get socialize, and talk about stuff that interests them, which is more important than any government propaganda. They get to be people for once. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in favor of kids engaging in significant extra time learning things, but it should be in something they are both interested and talented in.
If my kid really like basketball, computers, and drums and wanted to excel in them, they'd be practicing them and learning more about them on their school days.
No one got good at basketball or the flute by "socializing" and getting life experience (unless they were socializing on the court or in a band). There should be a balance between the pressure cooker and "let your children run wild and free". Remember this "free time=good social adjustment" is as much a faith-based mode of thinking as cram schools. One-size-fits-all solutions do not work with children, IMHO. |
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premiummince
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Highschool kids here can get a job. . |
This. Three of my high school girls work at the local Jin-Mart and bakery in my town. Makes it a bit awkward when you realize you've run out of bread and need to make a quick trip to the store before it closes. So you throw on a T-shirt and shorts and hurry down to the bakery...only to meet one of your students...who's only ever seen you in a suit and tie until now.
And it becomes gossip item number one at the school the next day. |
I don't think your clothing is central to their world. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| premiummince wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| Highschool kids here can get a job. . |
This. Three of my high school girls work at the local Jin-Mart and bakery in my town. Makes it a bit awkward when you realize you've run out of bread and need to make a quick trip to the store before it closes. So you throw on a T-shirt and shorts and hurry down to the bakery...only to meet one of your students...who's only ever seen you in a suit and tie until now.
And it becomes gossip item number one at the school the next day. |
I don't think your clothing is central to their world. |
I never said it was. I said it becomes gossip. At least one other teacher in this thread has had the same experience.
Instead of trolling me how about contributing something to this thread? |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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This kind of threads always enforces my hatred against public school.
It's a very good thing for your average South Korean citizen. |
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