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Korean police: Heads up! Enforce the law not the culture
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The Floating World

Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Yeah, teenagers will be teenagers. If they're bold enough to act like that towards me, they're going to hear a few words from me in return . I've dealt with harder stuff from teenagers back home in the same way.. so what? It wasn't excusable there, and it's not here.

So what are you going to do about it?

You are again, dodging the fundamental issue.

At a school back home he would have parental and instituional support in disciplining such behaviour.

Here he does not and is not taken seriously and any efforts to get the students to behave better will be met with 'make them more funny / let them sleep / it is our culture, please understand.'

Whereas a Korean teacher at the same school would have parental and institutional support.

We ask a kid to stop screaming and we are 'angry teach, pleae make them more fun.'

A Korean teacher deals with the same behaviour by beating the kid with a stick, making them do pushups etc and the student will not complain. If a NET tries even the most light disciplinary action the kids and parents DO complain and the NETS job will beocme more and more difficult as it has a snowball effect in that they either stop carin and be the soju and coffee guy you mentioned earlier or they keep trying to have good, well managed classed with a good curriculum and grow more and more bitter and alienated as the year progresses - DUE TO THE STUDENT'S RESISTANCE AND UNWILLINGNESS TO TAKE PART AND THE PARENT'S AND INSITUTION'S UNWILLINGNESS TO LEGITIMISE THE NETS POSITION AND EXPERIENCE WITH SUPPORT AND ENFORCEMENT OF DISCIPLINE AND STUDENT ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE NET'S CLASSES.

That is the issue here and that is why they are ultimately closing the programmes down - they don't work.

I have had this happen too many times despite my best efforts to provide entertaining and educational materials and forge good realtions with
students.

The only options in such schools is to quit caring and go through the motions, let the kids do what they want and lose your self respect; quit or keep banging your head against the absurdity of being held to unrealistic expectations without being given the means at all to carry thenm out.

Now steelrails, please answer me this.

If I impliment a minor discipinary action such as aksing a disruptive kid to leave the classroom for a short period, or taking away team points etc and am then complained about and given a written warning for trying to do my job and am told to be 'more funny' and less 'strict'but a Korean teacher in the same postion screams and yells at the kid and maybe makes him do squats or duck walks for half an hour or hits him with the love stick and receives support in doing so- is that not a huge double standard? And what would you say was the basis that double standard is built on (hint, one teacher is Korean, the other is not?)

You are simply (for what reason I do not know) trying to whitewash over and downplay a serious issue that causes nets a lot of stress and frustration and is one of the major ey component to the NET programme not working.

But why? If you believe my stories here and the above poster's, why would you not agree that the situation is f'd up and unfair?

Now why are you not willing to consider that as serious and why as a teacher yourself (I think that's your job) do you condone it and offer glib suggestions such as 'man up, drink coffee and soju?'

You may spread the notion that only complainers come here and the vast majoirty of nets are happy but I know many nets personally (as I'm sure do you perhaps) and the females especially, many have told me they go home and cry every night over the frustration of being treated like a non person and being given zero respect.

Me, I get drunk and rant and eventually after a cpl months stop giving a crap at all about the job and look forward to the desk time.

The job is a joke and we all know it. The sad fact is we are also often the punchline.

I'm happy for posters like tum that have good schools that let you be a real teacher and get thatt respect from the kids and faculty, we all strive for. But sadly in my 4 yrs in ps jobs I have been hindered from doing so by the parents and my supervisors and any attempt has bought me nothing but stress and fierce opposition and the overal suggestion has essentially been that in my classes the kids be allowed to behave however they like (even though it has been acknowledged the teacher doing the suggesting wouldn't allow it in their class and that is okay as 'we are Korean so they know we love them') and that I do not get personally offended and that I have zero emotional response when I am insulted openly by students or when they display extrmely bad and distruptiove behaviour and that I expect to not attempt any disciplinary action over such displays.

They essentially want me to not be human and be a dehumanised passive robot / hologramme, even though they would not be held to the same expectations themselves.

Well that is not being an effective teacher and I undesrstand why they want the ENGKEY robots in classes now. They realised slowly but surely that Nets aren't going to be happy eating that plateful of crap day in day out.

Sorry steelrails but your constant m.o. of advising nets to disown the legitimacy of their emotions and experiences in such situations is frankly shocking and offensive, seeing the same pattern over and over again.

I would not expect a foriegn teacher in my country to be held to such ridiculous and dehumanising expectations as outlined in my related experiences in public schools above - and nor do I believe - would you.

cisco kid

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Outlaws had us pinned down at the fort

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

I give up. Why did you go to the police station for this in the first place?

Don't you mean, "Why did you go to a police state in the first place"? Razz

JeffersonDarcy2010

Joined: 05 Aug 2010

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject:

Hey crescent, don't listen to steelrails. The guy would apologize for Koreans even if they were killing babies in the street. He'd have an excuse for it - guaranteed. Also, the girls on the train who could only muster out a quick laugh before the train doors closed are idiots, too. They can't allow themselves to be 'beaten' by a foreigner in public, so their only defense mechanism is to pretend they won. Fail. I guarantee they were all self-conscious and nervous. The people here usually are. That's why they act out to strangers, trying desperately to publicly raise their egos. I was working out yesterday at the park and a group of Korean teenage boys walked by. The biggest boy in the group starts waving his arms at me and yells, "Hey, man! Hey, man! Ha ha ha!" The entire group of young men (probably 18-20 years old) First of all, the guy had no business screaming anything at me from only 20 feet away. Secondly, this bizarre behavior is unbelievably rude and discriminatory, seeded with racism. My response? I start waving my arms back at him wildly, and yelled, "Ni hao! Konichiwa!" The guy then starts saying, "Oh, I'm sorry..." Why did he apologize to me? It's really confusing to me. Maybe because he knows he just publicly discriminated against a complete stranger to impress his friends? Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Then, one of his friends who had just been laughing hysterically in my face cones over to me with a smaller group of K-****s and says, "Uh... where are you from?" I reply ,"Sprechen sie deutsche?" He says, "What?" Then I say, "Hablas Espanol?" He says, "Ahh... Spain." I say, "Get out of here." The young men walked away - defeated at their own immature game. It took me some time to get to this point, but the HUGE amount of Korean people who have approached me and yelled some crap right in my face have assisted in my getting to this stage. It's happened so many times that I really wonder if they are brainwashed as to how to treat foreigners in the movies they watch. Maybe they are learning this behavior from TV shows? I don't know. It's crazy how many times I've experienced this, though. How do they automatically assume that I speak English, by the way? They don't know me. Just because I'm white doesn't mean that I speak English. There are many different languages in this world. Maybe the Koreans I've described don't know things like that yet? Maybe I can assume that all Asians speak Chinese! Most Asians are, right? This sure has been making these encounters a whole lot more fun. Last edited by JeffersonDarcy2010 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:59 am; edited 7 times in total

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject:

The Floating World wrote:

[

But why? If you believe my stories here and the above poster's, why would you not agree that the situation is f'd up and unfair?

Me, I get drunk and rant and eventually after a cpl months stop giving a crap at all about the job and look forward to the desk time.

The job is a joke and we all know it. The sad fact is we are also often the punchline.

I'm happy for posters like tum that have good schools that let you be a real teacher and get thatt respect from the kids and faculty, we all strive for. But sadly in my 4 yrs in ps jobs I have been hindered from doing so by the parents and my supervisors and any attempt has bought me nothing but stress and fierce opposition and the overal suggestion has essentially been that in my classes the kids be allowed to behave however they like (even though it has been acknowledged the teacher doing the suggesting wouldn't allow it in their class and that is okay as 'we are Korean so they know we love them') and that I do not get personally offended and that I have zero emotional response when I am insulted openly by students or when they display extrmely bad and distruptiove behaviour and that I expect to not attempt any disciplinary action over such displays.

.

Okay serious question. (I edited your post because I wanted to focus on this part).

You state that you've been here for four years. You also state that every one of those 4 years you have been hindered, stonewalled, and basically not allowed to teach properly.
Am I right so far?

Assuming that I am I would like to ask you why? I could see 1 or 2 years but 4? What I mean is at what point do you realize it's not working and simply leave the country for good? After all it seems it would be better both in terms of mental and physical health. Getting drunk and ranting which is what you said you do above can't be good for your overall health to say nothing of the stress at your job(s).

If it's not working, it's not working. It doesn't make you a bad person..it is what it is.

The Floating World

Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

The Floating World wrote:

1. It is not because of ME that it is not working. Almost every other net I know has the same problems. Like I said, I know many female nets that cry daily over it.

It doesn't make me a bad person, no but the issue here is (which you and rails will continue to dodge ad infiniTUM) it makes the system a bad system.

2. Money, why the hell else. Don't know if you got the post-it but there's a huge unemployment crisis back home do to rising costs, stagnant wages and lack of jobs. Trust me my health would be no better off working 9-5 back home.

Anyway nice diversion attempt to put the focus on to me rather than discuss the main issue of Nets recieving dbl standards and the whole net system not really working etc.

yeah, darcy is essentially correct. This will go on ad-infiniTUM, these guys don't want to enter into discussion they just want to 'protect Korea' which is a bloody weird thing to spend your time doing imo, as if Korea itself is being hurt by my pointing out how cruddy the English progammes are run here...

Anyway I've been suckered into about 5 pages of wasted time, enough is enough.

Bizzarely even the posters who are of the same opinion as myself and cresent aren't even in discussion with each other. It's mostly all apologists vs the rest lol.

Absurd.

itistime

Joined: 23 Jul 2010

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject:

The Floating World wrote:

Actually, I don't have the guts after all.

Whilst I wouldn't expect to have my rights violated over it if it is, as the op claims, not illegal to be topless, it does feel like the wrong thing to do here knowing that noone else in my neighborhood would consider it appropriate and nor would they do the same thing themselves.

I could do it back home in summer but not even in summer here in SK. A vest sure, but not topless as it is just so something that nobody else would do in this country.

I walked through Harajuku park topless as did many japanese and other foriegn males in August, but in Korea - no, only public place I would go topless is the beach.

So for me personally I'm not morally judging the op as wrong, but saying I would not want to attract that kind of attention to myself here personally.

Have had my shirt off running to answer your question.

Why don't they like shirts off? Self-conscious. Remember, egos are really big amongst the tiny men in this country.

Some of the other comments about kids yelling at you and such.
Whether you deem it rude or not, they are curious or stupid or silly or practicing what little english they know or are knuckledheads. Get over yourselves. IGNORE THEM.

I don't want to be one of those 'go home' people, but if you can't handle some simple discrimination in a place that it seems to ooze in every corner, then you should probably rethink what you are doing in a FOREIGN country. In my case, I've rarely encountered this type of treatment, but I guess it depends on your character. ? ?

crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:41 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Good grief, dealing with teenage punks on the street has nothing to do with logic or a college education....

That's clearly not what I was referring to. Concentrate! Logic has everything to do with your idea that verbal abuse is not worth reacting to, because it may be worse in the US. Verbal abuse is verbal abuse.

Steelrails wrote:

No wonder you're kids walk all over you.

Heh, is this starting to get to you? Despite the slip.. No, MY kids do not walk all over me. Through over 6 years teaching, in a hogwan no less, I can count on one hand the instances of disrespect I encountered. All of the instances occurred on the first day of teaching a new class, and mostly involved kids giving a false name for attendance, or swearing in Korean. My conduct in class, and my relationship with the kids led to 2 promotions within 4 years. First, to foreign manager of the branch, and then the entire chain. Yeah, tell me more about how I carry myself. I haven't fallen of my chair yet.

Steelrails wrote:

If you are that worried about being "professional" and giving due process over kids throwing up graffiti or taping some obscene picture on the wall and whether its okay for you as a teacher to tear it down, I have no idea what to say to you.

Tsk-Tsk...either that dishonestly is creeping in again, or again you're failing to follow. This is where that college ed comes in, see? Clearly, I was referring to the fact that you would increase a punishment and apply it to a random kid without proof, for drawing a picture.
Even better, you actually think that by lashing out with this harsher punishment without any proof is somehow a respectable and professional tool for maintaining the respect of children. Is this another one of those manly 'rules' you live by?
Yeah, you clearly do not know what to say. On one hand, it's not worth a reaction if a kid verbally abuses you in public for no reason, but then out comes an increased random punishment if -*gasp*- they draw a picture! Yay for logic!

Steelrails wrote:

Dude, you don't tell another man to slap himself and you don't slap other men.
If you don't know that rule, then I don't know what to say.

I'm going to have to correct you again. Actually i never 'told' you to do it... i said you 'should' do it because (as evidence keeps presenting itself), you fail to focus on the conversation in front of you. But at any rate, unfortunately no, my pop never sat me down about this well-known rule of manliness- not to tell someone on the internet that they should slap themselves. It's probably because he would have found it odd that other men would be so susceptible to my power of suggestion, in that they would actually slap themselves. Since this verbal comment is obviously causing you to 'freak out' to such an extent, I will make a poll here to see how many others know about this rule. Call it a public service for those who are still unaware.

But first, let's take a recap:
Minors hurling verbal insults: does not warrant a reaction.
Minors drawing graffiti: warrants harsh, random punishment despite proof of guilt.
Writing 'you should slap yourself' on the internet: warrants bold objection according to the rules of manliness.

Steelrails wrote:

So what are you going to do about it?

Already explained... and it doesn't include any increased random punishments.

Steelrails wrote:

I once saw a teenager and an older guy shove each other before it got broken up and they both walked away.
Any number of things could happen. You seem to think that this could never happen and if it did, there would only be one possible outcome.

Remember that L word? Nice jump to physical violence... and conveniently leaving out how it started.
Back on topic, we were talking about minors verbally insulting elders for no reason. I seem to think what? It matters not what possible outcomes may occur, but it does matter what is most likely to occur. We all know what is most likely to occur if that were to happen... but you still can't come up with details of it actually happening. In 10+ years here i have never witnessed nor heard of a minor instigating verbal abuse at an older Korean. As TUM admitted, after a kid was disrespectful to him, an older Korean stepped in to give the kid an earful. Yet, somehow I am 'letting it get to me' by snapping back myself? Fine, I'll just take a tip from you and snap randomly at ALL the kids around me at the time.

Steelrails wrote:

Anyways, keep safe on the mean streets of Seoul and watch out for the teenage girls and their comments on your nose.

No need for concern. I'll comment right back, as long as I know who said it. Good luck coming up with some harsh punishments in case a kid ever draws graffiti. And may you never slap yourself in the future.

Last edited by crescent on Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total

crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:57 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Seriously this is what you are complaining about? Some silly little girls calling you names? Just ignore them in that case then. Do you really care so much about their opinion that calling you some names inspires one long post after another? You don't know them, they don't know you, you'll probably never see them again, so why care?

As for big Korean cities I have lived in Daejeon and Ulsan so yes I have some experience. But it would seem that big city experience is irrelevant here as it hasn't taught you how to deal with disrespectful children.

Let's get this straight once and for all because it seems you apologists like to see what you want to see. I care enough only to make it known that I don't accept verbal insults in public.
To a sour "Hi", I already stated I ignore them. You apparently don't according to a recent post so spare me the talk on what I have 'learned' in regards to receiving insults.

These long posts, if you pay attention are mostly bogged down in having to correct Steelrails for a chronic lack of focus, or dealing with his outright manipulations and dishonestly.
"Never tell a man to slap himself"..."I don't care if you drew it or not...write 100 lines on why it's wrong! I demand respect!" Yeah, it doesn't get any better than this.

Why do you care enough to respond to an argument I'm having with someone else? Why did you care enough to react to the kid who spoke disrespectfully of you?

If you want to really see how much the topic means to me, take look at how many of those previous threads I appear on. It's the principle of the argument, not the cause so much.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:42 am Post subject:

Quote:

If I impliment a minor discipinary action such as aksing a disruptive kid to leave the classroom for a short period, or taking away team points etc and am then complained about and given a written warning for trying to do my job and am told to be 'more funny' and less 'strict'but a Korean teacher in the same postion screams and yells at the kid and maybe makes him do squats or duck walks for half an hour or hits him with the love stick and receives support in doing so- is that not a huge double standard? And what would you say was the basis that double standard is built on (hint, one teacher is Korean, the other is not?)

Yes, because that HAS to be the answer.

It couldn't possibly be because the teacher was trying to protect you from parent complaints, or that the teacher feels that certified Korean teachers should administer the discipline or any number of reasons. It has to be about race.

Now that's not to say that race isn't a possible explanation. I'm sure there have been plenty of times with similar incidents and NETs where race was a factor.

This goes back to the example someone made about "Go to Seoul" and see the attitudes of the kids vs. more rural areas. In which case is the explanation Korean racism or big city?

Quote:

You may spread the notion that only complainers come here and the vast majoirty of nets are happy but I know many nets personally (as I'm sure do you perhaps) and the females especially, many have told me they go home and cry every night over the frustration of being treated like a non person and being given zero respect.

Welcome to teaching. This is a problem that seems to be rampant the world over.

Korean teachers have the same problem. Maybe its a different kind of disrespect, but they still face it too. That's not to say it's okay, but it's part of the job.

It's like being a server. If you were a Chinese waiter at a Chinese restaurant and a customer was rude to you, it could be that they were rude to you because you were Chinese. It could also be that they are generally rude in restaurants. There's also the fact that waiters at Applebee's get treated like crap too. And the token white waiter at the Chinese restaurant gets treated poorly as well. Some things are just part of the job.

Quote:

The job is a joke and we all know it. The sad fact is we are also often the punchline

Maybe in your case, not in mine.

But yeah, there are some joke hagwons and teaching positions out there in which you just collect a check and muddle through. No one is wrong for doing so if the general culture of that school/hagwon is like that.

Quote:

They essentially want me to not be human and be a dehumanised passive robot / hologramme, even though they would not be held to the same expectations themselves.

No, they do that when they have to put up with the principal berating them and sitting through staff meetings, and having to drink with the guy and listen to him ramble about his views on the school.

Quote:

Sorry steelrails but your constant m.o. of advising nets to disown the legitimacy of their emotions and experiences in such situations is frankly shocking and offensive, seeing the same pattern over and over again.

Can't let your emotions rule you.

At the same time everyone has their tipping point.

Quote:

I would not expect a foriegn teacher in my country to be held to such ridiculous and dehumanising expectations as outlined in my related experiences in public schools above - and nor do I believe - would you.

I think its abysmal that students behave that way. But back home the students treat every teacher poorly if they can get away with it, same as here. Students are usually equal opportunity offenders when it comes to acting up at school.

Korean teachers and NETs put up with bad behavior.

Back home teachers and the Spanish teacher put up with bad behavior as well.

All four of those groups hate it. Some overcome it, some cry at night, some get drunk.

But Iwhat the argument here is I think boiling down to "How things should be" vs. "How things are".

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:02 am Post subject:

Quote:

And there are varying degrees of verbal abuse.

Quote:

Through over 6 years teaching, in a hogwan no less, I can count on one hand the instances of disrespect I encountered. All of the instances occurred on the first day of teaching a new class, and mostly involved kids giving a false name for attendance, or swearing in Korean. My conduct in class, and my relationship with the kids led to 2 promotions within 4 years. First, to foreign manager of the branch, and then the entire chain. Yeah, tell me more about how I carry myself. I haven't fallen of my chair yet.

Good!

Life goes on. That's my point. Deal with the situation. Don't let it get to you. It shouldn't stay as a simmering chip on one's shoulder.

Quote:

And all I said was that if someone taped up an offensive picture, a teacher should not have to worry about tearing down and throwing it in the trash can.

Quote:

But first, let's take a recap:
Minors hurling verbal insults: does not warrant a reaction.
Minors drawing graffiti: warrants harsh, random punishment despite proof of guilt.
Writing 'you should slap yourself' on the internet: warrants bold objection according to the rules of manliness.

Notice the key difference here?

Quote:

I will make a poll here to see how many others know about this rule.

To quote Charlie Murphy (Eddie Murphy's Brother)

Charlie Murphy wrote:

First of all, you don't slap a man. Ok. I mean, even when slapping was fashionable, ya know, they did it in Paris, some guy would come up, "I challenge you to a duel." They would have a gunfight after that, somebody had to go!

Back home, if you told someone (who wasn't your friend) to go slap themselves, things would in all likelihood go to blows. Trust me, you do not want to be throwing out that line, at least in the States.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:35 am Post subject:

Quote:

If I may floating world....

I think TUM was basically saying if you are having such a hard time in Korea after 4 years (which mean you tried to make it work by the way) then why not move on to greener pastures?

You say the economy back home is horrid and if you mean the US then you are probably right! However, the options for you are not Home or Korea. In fact the options are numerous if you want to teach English. You can earn a good living in many other coutries where perhaps you would be happier. Obviously, after 4 years, Korea does not work for you (for whatever reasons, not here to debate these however). Money can be made elsewhere and jobs for English Teachers are plentliful in many other countries so if your reason to stay is money, then thats not a good reason in my opinion and is certainly not worth the misery you seem to be going through. We all have just one life to live and staying in a place we detest and that makes us angry, frustrated or miserable is, in my opinion, a bad choice.

Up to you anyway and no offense meant!

crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:38 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

And all I said was that if someone taped up an offensive picture, a teacher should not have to worry about tearing down and throwing it in the trash can.

That is an outright lie. I quoted your exact words a few posts ago.

Steelrails wrote:

crescent wrote:

Notice the key difference here?

There are 2 key differences.
1. You would rather focus on slights to your internet manliness than the two related, on topic examples with minors .
2. You would punish a child for an obscene graffiti without proof of guilt in a bid to demand respect, but conversely you think it is 'freaking out' to react to obscene verbal abuse.

Please get all your apologist friends to vote in my poll, because i think your reaction to the 'you should slap yourself comment' is one of the silliest, most moronic things I have ever heard you say.
The topper is that you quote Charlie Murphy.

I never said I let these encounters simmer. I react and walk away. Surely you don't think that because I recall them for the sake of an argument, that they are a chip on my shoulder?
Is it at all possible for you carry on this robotic defence of Korea without putting words in the mouths of others? This thread would have been over and done with long ago if you shot straight and maintained some honesty.
Think of all the Charlie Murphy quotes you could be reading instead.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject:

Quote:

That is an outright lie. I quoted your exact words a few posts ago

Sorry, but you misunderstood me, which is partially my fault. When I said "punish first and ask questions later", I meant punish the kids first and ask questions to the co-teacher about what is appropriate later.

My point was that once you move forward in punishing, a lot of times it forces the teacher to comply with you.

This seems to be a common problem- failure to consider alternative explanations and interpretations. It MUST be racism. It MUST be a lie. EVERY school is like this. It can't be about city vs. rural it MUST be Korean.

Still waiting for your explanation on that one- How can it be a racist Korean culture if the treatment in rural areas vs. cities is different. Wouldn't that force you to reconsider and accept the possibility that what you are going through is indicative of living in a big city, NOT living in Korea?

Quote:

Please get all your apologist friends to vote in my poll, because i think your reaction to the 'you should slap yourself comment' is one of the silliest, most moronic things I have ever heard you say.
The topper is that you quote Charlie Murphy.

I never said I let these encounters simmer. I react and walk away. Surely you don't think that because I recall them for the sake of an argument, that they are a chip on my shoulder?
Is it at all possible for you carry on this robotic defence of Korea without putting words in the mouths of others? This thread would have been over and done with long ago if you shot straight and maintained some honesty.
Think of all the Charlie Murphy quotes you could be reading instead.

Fine, go to Detroit and get in an argument about sports or something and then tell the stranger that they should slap themselves.

Have fun with that one.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject:

The Floating World wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

The Floating World wrote:

I've never denied the system is bad. For the most part we have people who don't speak English hiring people with no experience. It's the blind leading the blind.

My point it is up to YOU to make it work as best as possible. Yes this can be done. No it is not only possible at good schools. You have to put in the effort to work with/change/circumvent the system in order to get things done. It wasn't all roses for me either.

The difference is that I refuse to drink or cry or give up. I will keep trying different ways until something clicks. To give an example I stayed for three years at the same public school. During the second and third year test scores (in English) increased for most of the students.

Personally I think that test scores are a poor yardstick to measure learning...but they're important to most Korean teachers (the principal is pleased) so I got greater autonomy and leeway in the classroom as opposed to my first year.

Anyway what Mr. PatrickGHBusan was saying is correct. It's not just a choice between Korea and the States. Life is too short to be miserable when you have other options.

crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Have fun with that one.

No no, don't water it down... you said ALL men know this rule. According to you men in general would think it's a call for a fight. Let's get this straight, so now this rule that ALL men know, is really only for you, Charlie Murphy, and arguments about sports in Detroit.

I've spent my fair share of weekends in Detroit, because I lived in Windsor. You, sir... are full of it.

Re: Rural vs urban... we already hashed through this. How many times do you need things repeated? Could it not be that rural areas are held more to conservative ways, and it's more likely that people know each other more?

If it were not racist, then we'd be hearing shipsecki and mongchongi being hurled from Korean to Korean. I've asked a few times now, when was the last time, in a public place, you've heard a korean shout a verbal insult against another Korean for no reason other than just being there? When was the last time you heard a Korean open the window of a bus and scream 'Hey you f-ing fat!" to another Korean?

Oh there MUST be another explanation. Let me guess, it must be because there aren't as many fat Koreans.

C'mon..defend, Steelrails!!! ... and let us know if there are any more 'rules' of manliness you left out in case someone decides to go to a sports bar.

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