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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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^ Great post. Thanks for the insights.
It would be nice if this incident could be used to affect change.
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| can you guys stop quoting all of each others posts please? |
This kind of obsession with the 'look how big my post is' is quite understandably the old overcompensation for a common inadequacy.
Relax Steelrails. No one cares about the size of your...cough...cough...'post'. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamecock wrote: |
Living here in China I can assure you that most people have the same reaction as all of you. They are horrified and angry. And they are angry about this issue in their own culture.
A few years ago in a highly publicized case, a Nanjing judge found a good Samaritan guilty of manslaughter. When half of the population lives on the edge of being destitute, they are not going to risk what little they have and the life of their families/children for a stranger. It is not that they don't care, but they are SCARED. As horrible as it is, it is self-preservation. I'm sure the people who walked past this child without helping did not know there was a camera on the situation.
People have no faith in the legal system here. They do not believe they will get a fair shake if they end up accused in a courtroom. This is what 60 years of totalitarianism has done. People have learned that the best way of surviving is to stay under the radar. It is easy to judge from the outside.
A few months ago a foreigner saved a man on the street and was hailed on the Chinese web as a hero and everyone spoke of how he put the cowardly Chinese people to shame (the unanimous words of the Chinese bloggers and commentors). Chinese people HATE these situations as much as you do. They are not immoral or heartless people.
The one silver lining about horrific incidents like this is that it is breeding a groundswell of change in China. Living here, I see how people are fed up with their own society being like this. They are angry about the unfairness of the legal system. They are angry about the gov't covering up and spinning incidents like the high-speed train crash a few months ago. This is NOT the old communist China (although the effects are still evident in situations like this). It is turbulent and interesting times on the mainland. |
Well said.
I believe people are afraid to help strangers suffering from injury here in Korea too in case a court makes them responsible for damages. The law needs to be changed. |
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travel zen
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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This looks very bad for China. Makes them look like money grabbing Communist/Imperialist wannabees.
Hope ChinaGov changes the law. |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| losthooper wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
This is Asia, the most populated place on the planet. The life of an individual means nothing. Why do you think Koreans and Japanese are all too eager to find ways to kill themselves? The problems of one are pointless to the problems of the whole.
In the Korean war, China used to march thousands of unarmed "soldiers" into UN forces to be shot. They would just keep throwing people in front of their guns until they ran out of bullets. I kid you not, that was a real strategy.
In the West, we value the individual. Being single and unique is a goal and is to be celebrated. Not here. "The nail that stands out is the nail that gets hammered down."
There are many reasons I love Asia, but this isn't one of them. It's disgusting. It is truly horrific. Were it to have happened anywhere in the Western world, there would be massive outrage. The people responsible would probably be hunted down by angry hoards.
If nothing else, let this be a reminder and a motivator for Americans and everyone else, to never let China become anything more than a regional power with regional limits. Can you imagine a country like that having the power to wage war anywhere in the world it wanted to? Every conflict they would be involved in would put USSR and Nazi atrocities to shame. They care nothing for human life, not even their own. Therefor, they cannot be allowed to affect too much human life.
Say what you will about Americans. Spew every stereotype you've ever heard. But we send billions of dollars a year to build roads, schools, hospitals, and create a better life for those who need it. We send food, clothes, blankets, and shelter to any country that is affected by natural disaster. We are the first to do it and usually spend more than anyone else to do it. We send doctors and nurses around the world, for free, to care for the sick and the poor. We pressure drug companies to make their products free for the poorest of human beings who can't even afford food to eat.
China does almost none of that. China thinks of itself first and itself alone. Chinese that go abroad are there for selfish reasons. I know it got ripped on last time I posted a link from the Sankaku Complex. Yes there are lots of ads for hentail, but they regularly post stories like this that happen all the time in China. You would not believe some of the things that go on there that Western media never picks up and you never hear. Hands down, this is probably the worst, but there are other horrific things happening in that country daily.
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
Great. Post. |
Great post indeed. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Chinese province debates law after hit-and-run outcry
The Chinese gov't just can't get this right.
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| A Chinese province is debating the introduction of a law to force people to help others in obvious distress. |
No! Don't force people to do anything! Why not instead shield Good Samaritans from liability?
The Chinese gov't is full of blind authoritarian top-down impulse.
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Initial online polls, though, suggest most people are against it.
"Talk about being civilised first. Is anyone paying attention to that?" read one posting. |
Yeah, imagine that. A law punishing people for failing to help is unpopular.
*headsmack* |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has been ignoring production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys. (The use of lead makes colors brighter and more "appealing")
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind and ethics in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
Just look at how they farm and grow fruit. They want to make money from their crops and don't want to risk losing money so they are still using the strongest and deadliest pesticides-even though they are illegal.
That's why I agree with your post 100%
Last edited by madowlspeaks on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
The death penalty? Really? Can you please provide the proof for that statement?
Plank or no plank-that video is what it is and shows a hell of a lot about the sick moral condition of ______(fill in the blank.) |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
The death penalty? Really? Can you please provide the proof for that statement?
Plank or no plank-that video is what it is and shows a hell of a lot about the sick moral condition of ______(fill in the blank.) |
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/22iht-milk.3.19601372.html
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-21/news/29974810_1_siemens-bribes-death-sentence
That video shows a lot about the sick moral condition of the driver.
What has there never been a hit and run back home? Has someone never been left helpless for a while on the street back home? Has there never been a bystander effect back home?
If that is so, then why is the term 'bystander effect' an English-language one? |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
The death penalty? Really? Can you please provide the proof for that statement?
Plank or no plank-that video is what it is and shows a hell of a lot about the sick moral condition of ______(fill in the blank.) |
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/22iht-milk.3.19601372.html
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-21/news/29974810_1_siemens-bribes-death-sentence
That video shows a lot about the sick moral condition of the driver.
What has there never been a hit and run back home? Has someone never been left helpless for a while on the street back home? Has there never been a bystander effect back home?
If that is so, then why is the term 'bystander effect' an English-language one? |
Thanks. Good on you! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
+1 to Steelrails
(bound to happen eventually) |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
The death penalty? Really? Can you please provide the proof for that statement?
Plank or no plank-that video is what it is and shows a hell of a lot about the sick moral condition of ______(fill in the blank.) |
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/22iht-milk.3.19601372.html
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-21/news/29974810_1_siemens-bribes-death-sentence
That video shows a lot about the sick moral condition of the driver.
What has there never been a hit and run back home? Has someone never been left helpless for a while on the street back home? Has there never been a bystander effect back home?
If that is so, then why is the term 'bystander effect' an English-language one? |
Thanks. Good on you! |
By the way, I am still waiting for the death sentence info re: lead paint.
The ones you posted are about yet a different case: that of tainted milk killing children, while the execs were taking bribes. |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| I'm glad I don't have class until 5. I'm crying here in my office, after watching that. |
Ditto. And if you have kids it that much harder.
Words can't describe. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| madowlspeaks wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
China must never be allowed to become a super power. They must never be allowed to inflict their brand of morality on the masses. Whatever is the cost, we have to prevent the mindset that made this incident possible from being spread around the world. It is our duty as a democracy. It is out duty as moral persons. It is our duty has human beings. |
This is right on.
As an example of morality and business, for past years, China has ignored production rules regarding the use of lead paint in children's toys.
The use of lead makes colors brighter.
China wants to make money-they don't care if the lead they use in children's toys causes disabilities and lead poisoning in children.
If the Chinese can ignore one of their own children lying bloodied and alive in the street-just think of their mind in business when selling products to strangers. Do you really think they would have any concern for the safety of their products??? Hell no.
That's why I agree with your post 100% |
Which is why the executives in charge of those companies were given the death penalty...
But no we should follow the country that gives them bailouts or sends them off to club fed.
Put it this way, If Madoff was a Chinese investor, he'd be dead.
Not saying the Chinese are moral, they, like every other nation, have an immoral leadership and plenty of immoral people. Just make sure there isn't a plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. |
The death penalty? Really? Can you please provide the proof for that statement?
Plank or no plank-that video is what it is and shows a hell of a lot about the sick moral condition of ______(fill in the blank.) |
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/22iht-milk.3.19601372.html
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-21/news/29974810_1_siemens-bribes-death-sentence
That video shows a lot about the sick moral condition of the driver.
What has there never been a hit and run back home? Has someone never been left helpless for a while on the street back home? Has there never been a bystander effect back home?
If that is so, then why is the term 'bystander effect' an English-language one? |
Thanks. Good on you! |
By the way, I am still waiting for the death sentence info re: lead paint.
The ones you posted are about yet a different case: that of tainted milk killing children, while the execs were taking bribes. |
Quite right, got the scandals mixed up.
He actually hanged himself. I think he decided to skip the red tape.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/23/business/worldbusiness/23suicide.html?pagewanted=all |
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madowlspeaks
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in time and space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's all so sad. These are dark times.
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