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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Requiring an experienced teacher to do a demo class is insulting. |
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jrwhite82

Joined: 22 May 2010
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Requiring an experienced teacher to do a demo class is insulting. |
If you are able to provide a worthwhile portfolio that includes video evidence of your lectures/lessons, I'd agree with you.
Most experienced people here don't have that. So if I was hiring I'd want to see them teach before I hired them. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Requiring an experienced teacher to do a demo class is insulting. |
Actually not at all.
Also as jr said, if a teacher comes up with a professional portfolio of lessons and activities and has multi-media examples, then he or she will likely not asked to do a demo lesson. Furthermore, an applicant on paper is one thing, his or her abilities in a live practical setting are another matter.
It is in fact an excellent evaluation tool. Your experience does not make you lord of the manor....employer will evaluate applicants, getting insulted over it will however send you right to the no thanks bin.
Your choice pal. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry I'm still not convinced. It's insulting and I think it would make some excellent canidates look elsewhere.
It also sends a message that the employer is a control freak of which bad Korean bosses are fameous for being. It encourages conformity, not diversity in teaching methods.
Demo teaching doesn't necessarily demonstrate how the teacher really teaches. It's more likely that they would be acting in a way they think would be pleasing to those watching. |
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valkerie
Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Location: Busan
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Most demo lessons are totally fake, which makes them pointless. In 11 years I have had to 'teach' those interviewing - inc. native teachers! Or a group of students told to act like they don't understand anything.
The best jobs I have had didn't even have a formal interview. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in the middle on this topic. I don't think you can get a good sense of how "good" someone can teach from a demo lesson but you can get a sense of how "bad" someone can teach from a demo lesson. If you cannot make a demo lesson look presentable then you probably shouldn't be teaching.
On the other hand, you really cannot get much more than whether the person has a basic idea of how to teach from a demo lesson. And, I do think other factors such as experience and education do matter. I would not judge someone solely on their demo lesson.
Personally, I think "good" or well-sourced recomendations and doing little extra things for your school are much better ways to judge a candidate. If you generally work hard, you probably are going to do a good job. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I've had 2 - demo classes
1 I passed the interview was asked to take the job and last minute there was an administration problem.
2. I sent a lesson plan electronically and got the job without an interview.
In both my demo classes, I explained the reasons for my activities and how they fit into the curriculum, no one wants to sit through a 15 min demo if you don't explain how your class relates to a pedagogical or descriptive academic strategy.
Good luck. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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+1
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
Patrick -
In your professional opinion, if he is doing a 20 minute demo, would you suggest doing a 20 minute lesson or teaching 20 minutes of an hour lesson as the demo?
I recently had an interview at a school and planned a 20 minute complete lesson. It kind of threw off my pacing, because I'm used to having so much more time, so I wasn't too crazy about the outcome. In fact, the lesson was totally not what I would ever do in a class. So I explained that without knowing the kids personalities, backgrounds and abilities, the unfamiliar learning environment, the compacted time, hesitation to trust the technology available because I haven't had time to practice with it, etc....I was not satisfied with the demo I taught. So I spun it about how important it is to know each individual learner, and what I normally do in my lessons. And then explained what my goal of the lesson was in showing them that I am confident in getting in front of a class of students I've never met and teaching them. I can structure a lesson properly etc...and they were satisfied with that enough to offer me the job.
I just feel like I could have done a better demo. Any tricks about compacting it? I tried to follow the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method. |
Good question!!!
I prepared and delivered both types when going for an interview and evaluated each type as a selection committee member.
My advice would be to teach the 20 minutes as an extract of a larger lesson. This needs to be said in the preface I mentioned in an earlier post. Tell the committee what the ENTIRE lesson is about and how the part you will demo relates to it. Identifiy clear learning outcomes and the methods used to reach them.
Have a lesson outline ready as a handout so the committee can follow along as you demo the lesson portion.
Whats evaluated there is typically how confortable the applicant is in front of people, the structure and his or her ability to produce something structured.
Hope that helped.... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Sorry I'm still not convinced. It's insulting and I think it would make some excellent canidates look elsewhere.
It also sends a message that the employer is a control freak of which bad Korean bosses are fameous for being. It encourages conformity, not diversity in teaching methods.
Demo teaching doesn't necessarily demonstrate how the teacher really teaches. It's more likely that they would be acting in a way they think would be pleasing to those watching. |
A demo lesson shows the employer how the prospective teacher deals with a live environment. It takes the applicant from paper (his documents) to practical and as an employer that is a critical element to evaluate before hiring anyone.
Being able to build a solid lesson plan is an important skills, being able to deliver that lesson coherently is just as important.
If I am considering hiring someone, I will check on those things.
As a side example, I hire contract workers for my consulting agency all the time. The area I deal in requires specific linguistic profiles and specific communitcation skills. Well, guess what, I will ALWAYS ask applicants to demonstrate their abilities in the language thats required and will always evaluate their communication skills (those required for the job they are applyign for). This goes for experienced and less experienced applicants. I personally think it would be FOOLISH to hire someone without evaluating the practical aspect of what they have on paper in their application.
Just my two cents. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Sorry I'm still not convinced. It's insulting and I think it would make some excellent canidates look elsewhere.
It also sends a message that the employer is a control freak of which bad Korean bosses are fameous for being. It encourages conformity, not diversity in teaching methods.
Demo teaching doesn't necessarily demonstrate how the teacher really teaches. It's more likely that they would be acting in a way they think would be pleasing to those watching. |
Ridiculous. Experience or length of time in Korea has an equal chance of being meaningless regarding teaching skill. The demo is absolutely necessary. I have served on enough hiring committees to know that what an individual is on paper sometimes has little bearing on their teaching. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| That's where practical teaching qualifications like the CELTA and DELTA are useful. they show that a candidate has reached a certain level of practical teaching ability to a specified standard over the course of several lessons in a period of weeks or months with genuine students. Not a fake twenty minute show piece demo in front of native or near native speakers. Good teaching is so much about how you interact with and get across your message when there is a real information gap. Having said that, if universities don't recognise the usefulness of practical training and are prepared to hire people solely with MAs in theory, a demo is better than nothing at all I suppose. |
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nigelnigel
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding having to do a mock lesson: For one I think most of teaching is acting. sure you have the content and knowledge behind you..or you should have it...but the rest is delivery and having the ability to manipulate the audience to do what you want...learn, pay attention, etc.
The hiring board might see some super good, qualified teacher on their worst day and there goes that guy/girl which would ordinarily been a great asset to the institution. But I suppose with some of the guidelines posted above a candidate should be prepared. I also agree that getting to this point even for an interview the candidate should have already been qualified enough to not have to "entertain" the board. |
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justpale
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Are there any types of activities that should be avoided for these interview classes? Any types of activities that work really well?
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Sorry I'm still not convinced. It's insulting and I think it would make some excellent canidates look elsewhere.
It also sends a message that the employer is a control freak of which bad Korean bosses are fameous for being. It encourages conformity, not diversity in teaching methods.
Demo teaching doesn't necessarily demonstrate how the teacher really teaches. It's more likely that they would be acting in a way they think would be pleasing to those watching. |
I'm still new to the Korea scene, but a mock class (or interviews in general) are good ways to weed people out. Maybe they are looking for someone who conforms to their style/culture. Maybe there is a new hiring manager who is looking for someone to change things up a bit. Just because you have experience doesn't mean you're a good fit for that school.
I detest interviews and auditions, but I acknowledge that they are part of the process and something I have to muck through. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| justpale wrote: |
| Are there any types of activities that should be avoided for these interview classes? Any types of activities that work really well? |
Call the uni and do some asking about their program, then tailor a lesson to fit that. Trust me, it makes a big difference. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| justpale wrote: |
Are there any types of activities that should be avoided for these interview classes? Any types of activities that work really well?
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
Sorry I'm still not convinced. It's insulting and I think it would make some excellent canidates look elsewhere.
It also sends a message that the employer is a control freak of which bad Korean bosses are fameous for being. It encourages conformity, not diversity in teaching methods.
Demo teaching doesn't necessarily demonstrate how the teacher really teaches. It's more likely that they would be acting in a way they think would be pleasing to those watching. |
I'm still new to the Korea scene, but a mock class (or interviews in general) are good ways to weed people out. Maybe they are looking for someone who conforms to their style/culture. Maybe there is a new hiring manager who is looking for someone to change things up a bit. Just because you have experience doesn't mean you're a good fit for that school.
I detest interviews and auditions, but I acknowledge that they are part of the process and something I have to muck through. |
Lots of people dislike interviews. That's normal!
Still, remember that interviews, demo lessons and other such things are one of the only ways an employer can verify that an applicant is sane, will potentially fit into the workplace and can demonstrate what he or she claimed are his qualifications.
Keep in mind that what a committee is most looking for in an interview is to see if you would be a good fit in the workplace, can work with others, are not a complete nutbar and can demonstrate some of your qualifications.
You would be shocked how many people end up showing they are complete tools during the interview....
The last thing an employer wants is to hire someone who will screw up the work environment for example....
As for activies, contact the department and get a hold of their program...if that fails or you are hestitant to call, do some research online, visit some University websites for example, you can sometimes find a veritable treasure trove of activities there. Alternatively, check out some of the sites on EFL-TEFL as they tend to be chock full of activities for classes of various levels (for you young adult learners). |
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