Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Riker]

Quite a while ago I started a discussion with the line:

"Out of all the posts I see here on Dave's, FBI checks seem to cause the most irritation. I've seen a lot of posts of people who have to leave Korea after long stays and others who can not come for the first time because of the FBI background checks".


Now that we are almost a year into the requirement, have you seen anybody not able to renew, long timers leaving without reason ect, because of the FBI CBC?

[r122925]

I've heard of many, but actually have 2 close friends who were forced out this year.

The first one had a trespassing charge from when he was 19 years old. He told me he and his friends had climed the fence of a public swimming pool when it was closed in the middle of the night. Stupid? absolutely. Good reason to deny someone a visa 10 years later? I'm not sure.

The second one is a little harder for me personally. This guy got a DUI in the states also while he was a college student. I won't argue that a DUI isn't serious, but this guy was without a doubt one of the best teachers I had ever worked with. He had been in Korea 5 years. He gave up drinking several years earlier and also doesn't drive a car in Korea. His risk of re-offense was zero. He was just about the only male I know here (foreign or Korean) who does not touch alcohol at all. But his past still came back to him.

What makes all of this even worse is that I did plenty of silly things when I was young and stupid. I could just as easily have ended up with a record myself but I guess I was just lucky that I never got caught. I would imagine many other Americans here could probably say the same thing. It's just more proof that life isn't fair.

What's the solution though? I don't think there really are any good ones. We do want to keep the legitimately dangerous people out of here. State checks have too many obvious loopholes. And Korean immigration can't really be expected to understand all of the intricacies of the US legal system enough to decide what is serious and what isn't, or who is rehabilitated and who isn't. Meanwhile the number of applicants is as high as ever so there's no reason for them not to deny anyone with a black mark on their record.

I also blame the US system a bit personally. An overzealous police force means just about anyone could end up arrested for just about anything (either legitimately or by mistake). And why do things like dropped charges and people who are found not guilty at trial still show up on the checks? What could possibly be the purpose of that? Also, why do relatively minor things need to remain on the record for the rest of a person's life? I would also be curious to know if anyone knows where I could find some statistics about the percentage of a population with a criminal record compared to the total population for countries around the world. I would certainly be willing to bet that the USA would be near the top, if not the highest in the world. And it's not because Americans naturally commit more crimes, but because the system is f***ed.

[weso1]

I new a guy that had a PI charge (public intoxication) when he was in university. Something, that here is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

He was dead set on coming back to Korea no matter what. I think he had a gf and while they were really serious, they weren't to the engagement and marriage stage yet.

Anyway, he beat it like this. He went home shortly after his current E2 visa ended. He legally changed his name. Nothing dramatic, he just moved his middle name to his first and his first to his middle. Kind of like "William Thomas Riker" to "Thomas William Riker." He had to be issued a new drivers license, new social security number, and a new passport. He applied for a job in Korea as if it was his first time and told recruiters he'd never been here before. Crim check was clean and he got a new visa.

That's commitment right there.

[bekinseki]

I know a guy also who had some exceptionally good ESL teaching credits, like a Master's or whatever, and also a DUI.

[uklathemock]

I knew a guy that had to leave for a drunk and disorderly. I think Koreans don't realize that in other countries law enforcement actually arrests people and that automatically gives you a record. You can't just pay a few million won and keep your record clean.

[uklathemock]

The DUI reason cracks me up as very few foreigners that I've met here own a car. Personally, I have to say a prayer every time I get behind the wheel.

[fermentation]

I personally think its rather stupid. An FBI check? Do Korean teachers get that kind of scrutiny when employed? I don't know about public school teachers but I have never been asked about my criminal background when applying for hagwons.

[weso1]

[michpottier]

The FBI check is far overrated, and actually not as thorough as they would have you believe. If you get busted for a DUI, drunk and disorderly, trespassing etc etc, It is up to the local police department to send that record along to the FBI later. This is common, but if you are from a small town with a very localized population, the police do not usually go through the effort to report every little misdemeanor to the FBI. I know many people here with misdemeanor offences, and their records came up clean on the FBI check while their state records showed the offence.

I think the real annoyance is not so much Korea's actions but the discovery by so many Americans, the complete incompetence of their government services. In the USA, criminal records are public records (not so in Canada and other countries), so why does it take up to 12 weeks to get, but any state trooper can pull up your record on the street, and take it as true and accurate? Also the Canadian border guards have complete access to state and FBI records! A foreign country has easier access to american records than Americans do!?

Finally I think the FBI check has severely crippled the industry here. Canadians now out number Americans as teachers (since we can get our crim check in around a day), and many recruiters, schools etc, just can't be bothered, especially since you can wait 8 weeks and the FBI check can come back telling you to take your finger prints again because they couldn't read them!?! Huh!? So they can pull a partial finger print off a gun and convict a murderer, but they can't read purposeful ink based fingerprints for a record check!? Honestly, I think it takes a solid weekend to earn that badge.

[Riker]

[bnrockin]

Great topic, Riker.

One question I had that I am hoping some others might be able to shed some light on (preferably with some statistics) is how the market has been affected by the new requirements. As you said, it is now coming close to a year since it has come into play, and I really wonder about the numbers.

I think it is a question of:
1. Short/long-timers who have petty to major offenses that rule them out
2. People who either out of ignorance, laziness, or misunderstanding have not gotten them done in time
3. People who were looking to come to Korea to teach but were deterred by the process or past infractions

Michpottier brought up a great point too about how the demographics have changed. I just really wonder about the overall numbers.

I know that the lack of new jobs in the past couple of months and some EPIC programs reducing numbers could also lead to a decline of teachers. Heck, it could even be possible that there was not a noticeable effect at all. I just wonder if it is even possible for it to get to a point where there is actually a significant demand for new teachers. Maybe that will come when you need the Presidential/Prime Minister seal.

It really feels like so long ago back in 2007 when all you needed was a copy of your diploma with a university stamp, 2 sealed transcripts, a copy of your passport, and a two week processing time before you were on a plane ride over.

[Wildbore]

[yodanole]

[Riker]

If they didn't have his fingerprints on file previously I fail to see how that would matter. I am more surprised that the FBI wouldn't check some database of former names or Aliases. Otherwise it seems anybody could get around a CBC by legally changing their name.

Having said that, this wouldn't surprise me if it were true seeing as how dis-functional our government is.

[Freakstar]