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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: Grammar question |
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In the sentence, " She needs to buy a cake," "need to" is the main verb, so is "buy" a bare infinitive acting as an object? If so, what about, "a cake?" Is that also an object that should be thought of as being part of an object phrase "to buy a cake?"
Thanks in advance.
CM
Last edited by meangradin on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Looks like need is a "modal" verb |
I am aware that "need" has a modal use, but this form of "need" is not a modal as 3rd person subjects inflect the verb; "She needs." If it were a modal, it would read, "She need."
Anyway,my question is related to the object of the verb. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| But what about "a cake" isn't that also part of the object? If I recall correctly, it is called an "infinitive phrase" |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
| But what about "a cake" isn't that also part of the object? If I recall correctly, it is called an "infinitive phrase" |
A cake in this case is the object of to buy just as to buy is the object of the verb. Yes, a cake is part of the infinitive phrase, but to buy is the infinitive. The infinitive phrase consists of the infinitive + the object of the inifinitive. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Looks like need is a "modal" verb |
I am aware that "need" has a modal use, but this form of "need" is not a modal as 3rd person subjects inflect the verb; "She needs." If it were a modal, it would read, "She need."
Anyway,my question is related to the object of the verb. |
Based on the examples on the site I went to, it looks like it is a modal verb compared to what you have in your original post.
"She needs to buy a cake"
"You (don't) need to work on weekends, because the office is closed."
If I am misunderstanding something, please let me know. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| meangradin wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Looks like need is a "modal" verb |
I am aware that "need" has a modal use, but this form of "need" is not a modal as 3rd person subjects inflect the verb; "She needs." If it were a modal, it would read, "She need."
Anyway,my question is related to the object of the verb. |
Based on the examples on the site I went to, it looks like it is a modal verb compared to what you have in your original post.
"She needs to buy a cake"
"You (don't) need to work on weekends, because the office is closed."
If I am misunderstanding something, please let me know. |
He is, actually, correct. Need in this case is an ordinary verb since it has an object. The modals wouldn't have an object from what I understand. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| He is, actually, correct. Need in this case is an ordinary verb since it has an object. The modals wouldn't have an object from what I understand. |
I am not disputing anything. I simply don't understand.
"Need in this case is an ordinary verb"
Like, "I have been working 10 hours. I NEED a break."?
Now, look at NEED + OTHER VERB (need to ask, need to listen to, need to visit, need to etc...)
Now, there are 2 verbs. I am confused, feel free to explain. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
koreatimes wrote:
meangradin wrote:
Quote:
Looks like need is a "modal" verb
I am aware that "need" has a modal use, but this form of "need" is not a modal as 3rd person subjects inflect the verb; "She needs." If it were a modal, it would read, "She need."
Anyway,my question is related to the object of the verb.
Based on the examples on the site I went to, it looks like it is a modal verb compared to what you have in your original post.
"She needs to buy a cake"
"You (don't) need to work on weekends, because the office is closed."
If I am misunderstanding something, please let me know.
He is, actually, correct. Need in this case is an ordinary verb since it has an object. The modals wouldn't have an object from what I understand. |
Well lets confuse things even more. Modal verbs don't change with third person subjects (I can/He can...) so if "need" was indeed a modal, I could not write, "She needs..." It is used in Br. English in the following way, "She need n't worry about things."
Adventurer, with all due respect, but I have to disagree. I think "to buy a cake" is the direct object of "needs." I came across this example from infinitive phrases that is a mirror of my op.
"Lakesha hopes to win the approval of her mother by switching her major from fine arts to pre-med."
To win the approval of her mother functions as a noun because it is the direct object for the verb hopes.
http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/infinitivephrase.htm
On a related note, in the sentence, "He likes playing/to play soccer" I interpret the verbals and soccer as being the direct object. Am I wrong here also?
Please let me know what you think. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"Need in this case is an ordinary verb"
Like, "I have been working 10 hours. I NEED a break."?
Now, look at NEED + OTHER VERB (need to ask, need to listen to, need to visit, need to etc...)
Now, there are 2 verbs. I am confused, feel free to explain. |
I understand your confusion. I think "need" (as well as other verbs such as like/want...) when used alone takes a noun or equivalent ( I need help/I need you) However, these verbs can also take an infinitive that must start with "to." (I need to go/She needs to buy). But my confusion lies in the area of is there a difference between "need" and "need to?" As you asked, are these two distinct verbs, or do they merely have different "forms," for lack of a better word. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Here is something that might clear up the confusion regarding when need would be a modal:
NEED and NEED TO
"Do you need to use the hairdryer?" "Yes, I do."
Need you make so much noise?
In the first sentence above need to is not a modal auxiliary, and behaves like a main verb, similarly to have to. In the second sentence need is a modal auxiliary, which is used mainly in questions and negative forms. Note that the affirmative form of need can still be used after negative verbs and in sentences which express doubt, negative or restrictive ideas:
I don't think he need go just yet.
I doubt whether I need help you.
You need only have asked.
Both need and need to mean something like have to.
http://www.grammaring.com/need-and-need-to |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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alljokingaside
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| !!! |
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