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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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pres82
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: chincha dude? |
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Do you really think they CARE how qualified you are when they hire you? No. Do you know why?
Because to sit infront of 12 kids with a English Land 2 book going: "Myyyyy nammmeeee issssss Tommm." for 45 minutes doesn't require much more than the ability to read and two opposable thumbs.
If you've got a sandy snatch about unqualified people taking your job, you're in the WRONG country bud. What did you expect when you came to Asia to teach EFL? Did you really think it was gonna be a lot of Phi Beta Kappas sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops?
Just an FYI, you didn't get your job in Korea because you're a super-duper gold star qualified teacher. You got your job because you could write a resume coherently enough for some recruiter to read on ESL Cafe.
Now take a queit seat with the fragile-minded. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops? |
Funny thing is OP doesn't have the slightest clue about these because he's not qualified/certified to teach ESL/EFL.
Try not to talk over his head! |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| A B.Ed. is a cash grab and a brutal way of controlling teacher supply. Virtually every teacher will be made or broken based on their classroom management and their organizational skills (time management especially), which you receive virtually zero training in during your B.Ed. except maybe an in-class seminar. |
I beg to differ. In Canada you go to Teachers College to get certified and that program, when I took it, was practice heavy with internships, workshops, demo lessons. It focused on classroom management skills, pedagogy-andragogy, lesson planning over a semester, grading, building evaluations...
Now what each person does with this training is another matter. Also, being a good teacher depends on other things as well. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:14 am Post subject: Re: chincha dude? |
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| pres82 wrote: |
Do you really think they CARE how qualified you are when they hire you? No. Do you know why?
Because to sit infront of 12 kids with a English Land 2 book going: "Myyyyy nammmeeee issssss Tommm." for 45 minutes doesn't require much more than the ability to read and two opposable thumbs.
If you've got a sandy snatch about unqualified people taking your job, you're in the WRONG country bud. What did you expect when you came to Asia to teach EFL? Did you really think it was gonna be a lot of Phi Beta Kappas sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops?
Just an FYI, you didn't get your job in Korea because you're a super-duper gold star qualified teacher. You got your job because you could write a resume coherently enough for some recruiter to read on ESL Cafe.
Now take a queit seat with the fragile-minded. |
I've taught English Land 2, and if that's how you're teaching it, you're doing a pretty crappy job. Just because the book doesn't provide a lot of material directly doesn't mean there isn't anything you can do with it. And herein, I think, is a big part of why uncertified teachers in Korea get a bad name. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: Re: chincha dude? |
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| northway wrote: |
| pres82 wrote: |
Do you really think they CARE how qualified you are when they hire you? No. Do you know why?
Because to sit infront of 12 kids with a English Land 2 book going: "Myyyyy nammmeeee issssss Tommm." for 45 minutes doesn't require much more than the ability to read and two opposable thumbs.
If you've got a sandy snatch about unqualified people taking your job, you're in the WRONG country bud. What did you expect when you came to Asia to teach EFL? Did you really think it was gonna be a lot of Phi Beta Kappas sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops?
Just an FYI, you didn't get your job in Korea because you're a super-duper gold star qualified teacher. You got your job because you could write a resume coherently enough for some recruiter to read on ESL Cafe.
Now take a queit seat with the fragile-minded. |
I've taught English Land 2, and if that's how you're teaching it, you're doing a pretty crappy job. Just because the book doesn't provide a lot of material directly doesn't mean there isn't anything you can do with it. And herein, I think, is a big part of why uncertified teachers in Korea get a bad name. |
Seconded.
The post you quoted northway is a good example of where teacher training can make a difference. The material you get as a teacher is a STARTING POINT not an END POINT. |
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Soldier
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: Illegual Teachers |
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| cle2kor wrote: |
| rchristo10 wrote: |
So, this is your personal attempt at changing the nature of the profession? Uhm, which has been going on since the days of Socrates until now?
You're right about the not being a rocket scientist part.
No, you need not say more. |
Yep. Gotta be bed time by now. Just casting pearls before swines at this time.
Hey! Enjoy your drink and drugs or whatever "scumbag" thing you might be doing now.
Wish I could send my kid to you in the morning for your quality education. |
Wow! This teacher has serious issues: Professionalism, ignorance, self righteousness, superiority complex disguised as a lack of self esteem, etc.
FYI cle2kor: Public School teaching and ESL teaching are two completely different worlds.
I worked in both; and long enough time to know the difference. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I had mixed feelings about the "English Land" series.
The haggie I worked for refused to buy anything but the textbooks/workbooks and none of the other resources.
When I went and bought a CD for the level 3 book, so I could at least learn the songs with the class, I was called out of the class and told not to use it.
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I'm still baffled by that. Not sure what he expected or thought was
wrong with using the CD.
I ended up having to make up my own melodies for all the songs and
do what I could like ask questions about the pictures and stuff.
Other kid's EFL Series have more to work with, for sure. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| Quote: |
| sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops? |
Funny thing is OP doesn't have the slightest clue about these because he's not qualified/certified to teach ESL/EFL.
Try not to talk over his head! |
What's a 'fricative stop'? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| The English Land series sucks, but that doesn't mean you can't expand on the (limited) material it offers you. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
| Quote: |
| sitting around discussing adverbial nodes, and fricative stops? |
Funny thing is OP doesn't have the slightest clue about these because he's not qualified/certified to teach ESL/EFL.
Try not to talk over his head! |
What's a 'fricative stop'? |
A fricative is a sound created by partial obstruction of air passage such as "f" or "sh", and a stop is a sound created by a full obstruction (or stop) of airflow. "Fricative stop" isn't a common phrase (usually there's a dash or some preposition between the two), but could be used to describe a consonant cluster such as the ft in "raft". There's also the issue of NNSs substituting a fricative with a stop; I'm sure you've heard a student utter "dis" instead of "this". |
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kberger
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I have no teaching certificate or prior teaching experience before coming over here. But in my opinion a degree in education does not equal a good teacher.
I really liked this New Yorker article by Malcolm Gladwell. It talks about predicting who can be a good teacher, and who can be a good quarterback in the NFL.
http://www.gladwell.com/2008/2008_12_15_a_teacher.html |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I have no teaching certificate or prior teaching experience before coming over here. But in my opinion a degree in education does not equal a good teacher.
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Training doesn't guarantee a teacher will be good but too many people use this as a reason not to do any training. It would have to be pretty bad training for it not to result in the teacher being better than they were before. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| "Fricative stop" isn't a common phrase (usually there's a dash or some preposition between the two), but could be used to describe a consonant cluster such as the ft in "raft". There's also the issue of NNSs substituting a fricative with a stop; I'm sure you've heard a student utter "dis" instead of "this". |
Thanks for that - you are right, it isn't a common phrase (Gimson's makes no mention of it, with or without any dash or preposition). I did wonder if it might be a cluster, as you explained, or a cluster****, as articulation is usually described by place (alveolar, labial, dental etc.) and manner (stop, fricative, flap etc.). So you could get a voiced alveolar stop or a voiced dental fricative (like the examples of /d/ and /�/ in 'dis' and 'this'), but this is the first time I've heard of a sound described by the manners of articulation with no mention of the place - live and learn!
On another, slightly tangential, note; Jennifer Jenkins' idea of teaching a 'core competence' in the sounds of English would see teachers ignoring students' rendering of the English words 'this' and 'thing' as 'dis' and 'ting' because these variations do occur in some native speaker varieties of English and do not hinder the listener's comprehension of the utterance. Even Gimson himself (the demi-god of English phonetics) cautiously advises this variation may be 'tolerated' (but not encouraged!). |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, you're of course right about the standard way to describe articulation, but in certain situations the focus may be on manner rather than place, I guess.
I would tend to agree with what you've described about Jenkins. A lot of literature on pronunciation and comprehensibility notes that /d/ for /theta/ swaps don't have much effect on intelligibility at all. Furthermore, research suggests that suprasegmental features (stress, rhythm, tone) are generally more important for comprehension, and in my experience those are under-taught. Does Jenkins address suprasegmental pronunciation or is it mainly just about simplifying phonics instruction? |
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pres82
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: chincha dude? |
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| northway wrote: |
I've taught English Land 2, and if that's how you're teaching it, you're doing a pretty crappy job. Just because the book doesn't provide a lot of material directly doesn't mean there isn't anything you can do with it. And herein, I think, is a big part of why uncertified teachers in Korea get a bad name. |
I don't teach anymore. I work in an office in Seoul, where I get to spend days reading Dave's ESL posts where guys like you, act all billy badass online to people you've never met, because you have an inferiority complex. (Cause I'd be willing to bet you dont' take that tone to strangers in a bar.)
Don't like underqualified people taking your jobs? Go teach where one matters. The only thing a Teaching License means to a hakwon owner, is that he can justify his $1200 / month pricetag to gullible parents. |
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