|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: chincha dude? |
 |
|
| pres82 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
I've taught English Land 2, and if that's how you're teaching it, you're doing a pretty crappy job. Just because the book doesn't provide a lot of material directly doesn't mean there isn't anything you can do with it. And herein, I think, is a big part of why uncertified teachers in Korea get a bad name. |
I don't teach anymore. I work in an office in Seoul, where I get to spend days reading Dave's ESL posts where guys like you, act all billy badass online to people you've never met, because you have an inferiority complex. (Cause I'd be willing to bet you dont' take that tone to strangers in a bar.)
Don't like underqualified people taking your jobs? Go teach where one matters. The only thing a Teaching License means to a hakwon owner, is that he can justify his $1200 / month pricetag to gullible parents. |
When someone in a bar tells me their teaching method is to sit at the front of the class and have students repeat after them, I ask them how the boredom doesn't drive them insane. That's what I did when I first started teaching, and it really wasn't enjoyable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Edwardcatflap and others,
Did you read that article? It was a fascinating read with a lot of interesting points. I would say it is a must read for anyone who hires or trains teachers (or any other job).
I have a feeling this thread could actually get interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DIsbell wrote: |
| Does Jenkins address suprasegmental pronunciation or is it mainly just about simplifying phonics instruction? |
Yes she does. I recommend her book The Phonology of English as an International Language |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Did you read that article? It was a fascinating read with a lot of interesting points. I would say it is a must read for anyone who hires or trains teachers (or any other job).
|
Just read it, skipping the bits about American football and banking. A lot of the techniques they were talking about while watching the videos are techniques that people can and do get taught on decent practical training courses, where they also do on the job training with real classes. Trainers watch their lessons and give them feedback on lots of stuff. Including how they interact with the students. The amount of psychobable they include in the feedback depends on how much they've read of the latest surveys and accepted as common sense. Personally I think there's a lot to that kind of research, though plenty of teachers don't. I don't know what people are doing in educational degrees if they're not dealing with stuff like this. Those techniques are only one part of teaching though, as subject knowledge is also a vital part. IMO most teachers are poor because they haven't had any training or they've had it and just can't be bothered to do what they were told because it's a bit more effort. Yes, personality does play a part but people with 'natural super teacher's talent' is more the stuff of Dead Poets' society than real life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Most definitely people skills are an important part of the job - some of which can be trained and some of it - it is better to just train people that already show an inclination to have them like they said about doctors.
The part that really interested me is how unpredictable it is to see how successful someone will be -whether they are a Quarterback, a doctor, a financial advisor or a teacher. The conclusion seems to be that all the testing, education and interviewing and you still don't know how they will do until they actually do the job. In fact, according to the article, people of various educational backgrounds do quite well in the classroom. The article suggested that maybe the best way to train teachers is to let them get a degree in anything and then give them on the job training - that would be more effective than to train them in education. It is most definitely an interesting article. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Unposter wrote: |
| In fact, according to the article, people of various educational backgrounds do quite well in the classroom. The article suggested that maybe the best way to train teachers is to let them get a degree in anything and then give them on the job training - that would be more effective than to train them in education. |
This is pretty much the approach to EFL in Korea, haha. And I think we do see a lot of people from varying backgrounds ending up pretty good at the job. But I think what Korea shows us is that real on the job training is important- which there is a huge lack of in Korea, and we're all aware of the results.
The article was pretty interesting, but I have to agree with edwardcatflap about having subject knowledge. I think content knowledge can positively influence lesson planning and make a teacher better equipped to help students. It's one thing to have the skills to manage a room of people and give feedback (which is lionized in the article), but that all goes out the window if you give bad or uniformed feedback. For example in EFL: A lot of people think it's common sense to write with certainty and avoid passive tense in academic writing, but corpus and register analysis actually shows extensive use of hedging and passives. And related to an earlier tangent in this thread, helping a student with a pronunciation problem could be enhanced by being able to explain how to articulate the sound instead of only relying on mimicry.
I guess what I like about our field is, aside from avoiding most of the politics of public school teaching, that you can take someone with a basic skillset (capable of using English at a high level), give them some concentrated training (ideally a certificate program plus some practicum/on-the-job, but even all of that in every case) and end up with a competent person who will generally continue to improve with time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd just like to say that I agree with you. Proper on the job training is important - though defining "proper" becomes much more sticky. I also agree that subject knowledge is extremely valuable. In fact, I would say "knowledge" in general is extremely beneficial, oddly enough.
The question about fricatives is an interesting one. I, personally just use pictures or open my mouth and show tounge and mouth positions because very few of my students, even those who have studied linguistics, know what a "fricative" is. But, of course, I am knowledgeable and resourceful enough to know to show pictures and to be able to explain it on a diagram. And, interestingly enough when I show a diagram, most of my students will say, oh yeah, I've already been taught that. And, from there, it is just listen and repeat... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Of course you don't actually need to use the word "fricative" when explaining, but having that knowledge allows you to describe how to articulate and draw accurate diagrams. I've found explaining how to articulate can be helpful for some students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
No, I wasn't trained to teach ESL, but I was taught ways to reach young learners, if you have time look up Gardner's Multiple Intelligences. And I've learned the importance of Differentiation in the classroom. If I had asked you this in a right-now-face-to-face situation would have any idea as to what I was talking about?
Probably not. |
In all sincerity, I have zero idea what this is but I'd like to know. A few of my bosses to date have said I expect the same out of all of my students, but I don't realise they are all different. It's true, I try to run my class like a well oiled machine and I admit to having the same expectations of each student and I realise it's not fair but I find it a hard habbit to break out of. Perhaps because I don't know any alternate method etc. Also due in part to hakwans unrealistic expectations and 'must finish a book a month in two 50 min classes a week and every kid must get at least 70%, etc.'
But sincerely though, Any links to some free reading on those topics that might give me something to work with and adapt my teaching style somewhat?
I feel bad sometimes and I do like kids (most of em haha), but I'm not the one running a school or hakwan and hiring ba's in drama like me with zero teaching experience or knowledge. Can't blame me for wanting to see the world and be able to save 500 quid a month while doing it.
Seriously though, hit me up with some links for some reading on those bolded topics if you can, as I reckon that could help me develop a lot. Cheers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Floating World wrote: |
| Quote: |
No, I wasn't trained to teach ESL, but I was taught ways to reach young learners, if you have time look up Gardner's Multiple Intelligences. And I've learned the importance of Differentiation in the classroom. If I had asked you this in a right-now-face-to-face situation would have any idea as to what I was talking about?
Probably not. |
In all sincerity, I have zero idea what this is but I'd like to know. A few of my bosses to date have said I expect the same out of all of my students, but I don't realise they are all different. It's true, I try to run my class like a well oiled machine and I admit to having the same expectations of each student and I realise it's not fair but I find it a hard habbit to break out of. Perhaps because I don't know any alternate method etc. Also due in part to hakwans unrealistic expectations and 'must finish a book a month in two 50 min classes a week and every kid must get at least 70%, etc.'
But sincerely though, Any links to some free reading on those topics that might give me something to work with and adapt my teaching style somewhat?
I feel bad sometimes and I do like kids (most of em haha), but I'm not the one running a school or hakwan and hiring ba's in drama like me with zero teaching experience or knowledge. Can't blame me for wanting to see the world and be able to save 500 quid a month while doing it.
Seriously though, hit me up with some links for some reading on those bolded topics if you can, as I reckon that could help me develop a lot. Cheers. |
The best way is probably just to google Gardner's MI Test and take one to learn how you best learn yourself and how it is affecting how you are teaching. You'll get the point of it, I think, it's mostly common sense by now for anyone under 40 who grew up in the US or Canada. I also recommend taking a teaching perspective inventory test and reading about Bloom's taxonomy. You don't need to go too in-depth, just enough that you can reflect and improve on your lessons.
I also think a Drama major is as prepared as anyone to teach EFL in a foreign country, there's so much opportunity for integrating drama into your lessons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the OP is somewhat justified in what he/she believes. MOST of us are not licensed teachers. And he feels like we are taking jobs that are in his field...maybe we are not taking HIS jobs but we are flooding his field. Could this happen in America? A drama major getting a school job?
No.
And I don't have a cert. or anything and here I am teaching. I think it's funny, though, how those WITH certs sound just as pretentious as the OP does. BUT, you can have every cert in the world but a teaching license trumps them all in my eyes I would imagine, kind of like in the military, you can be MASTER CHIEF PETTY OFFICER but you're still NOT an officer, and the officer is, was and always will be above you (and me.) Oh well.
Eh. Teaching ESL is a different breed OP, Maybe you should go teach at an International school or back in your home country where you'd be more appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| In some states of the union, you need a MA to even apply for a teaching license. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FMPJ
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nine years teaching in Korea at very high levels and with very high success, and zero of the top 20 teachers I've known here have been licensed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
