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whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
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 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://sentaku.org/social/1000006258/
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Can I just add one thing?
I read through the comments on that site. People gave justification for their responses. I saw Dokdo/Takeshima mentioned maybe twice in the first one hundred comments. Most seem to be justifying their response by mentioning things about school children creating anti-Japanese murals or Koreans burning Japanese flags in public. So, it's possible one of those issues had been in the news that week.
Actually, far, far more people wrote about being sick of all the Korean Drama on TV than about any other issue.  Haha.
Plenty of Korean dramas and K-Pop on Japanese TV. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| What's Ulleungdo like anyways? |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| What's Ulleungdo like anyways? |
It's Korea but very slow and relaxed. The place is beautiful. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And for those who think the Japanese don't really care
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/09/116_95425.html
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It said that the Japanese Embassy�s political counselor Yamamoto Yasushi claimed that Tokyo made all-out-efforts to reach an agreement on a scientific survey in bilateral negotiations over the issue in early September.
Yasushi claimed that Japanese delegation spent �all summer preparing a telephone-book-size dossier backing up Japan�s legal right to conduct the surveys.� |
Yeah sure they don't care.
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But they don't take out ads in Japanese newspapers. Why do Korean celebrities and organizations keep on buying full-page ads in US newspapers over the Dokdo issue? I can assure you that NO ONE in the USA cares about the issue.
As for mandatory field trips for all Korean kids paid for by education funds, well, where do you think that money will come from? |
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mukukja
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Re: the full page ads in Western periodicals...
I have no idea who spawned that horrid bit of hamfisted diplomacy, but as assured as we both are of its inefficacy in accomplishing its end there will be more of the same.
To me they are but an annoying and embarrassing post script. Annoying in that they have the potential to completely negate the needed presence of a full page Victoria Secret advertisement, and embarrassing insofar as I often have to explain Korea to yon folks back home.
Korea has military personnel on that rocky bit...case be closed.
Raise your hand if you have been ever taken off the fence re: land disputes by reading an ad after your morning ablutions. |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| whanous wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://sentaku.org/social/1000006258/
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Can I just add one thing?
I read through the comments on that site. People gave justification for their responses. I saw Dokdo/Takeshima mentioned maybe twice in the first one hundred comments. Most seem to be justifying their response by mentioning things about school children creating anti-Japanese murals or Koreans burning Japanese flags in public. So, it's possible one of those issues had been in the news that week.
Actually, far, far more people wrote about being sick of all the Korean Drama on TV than about any other issue. Haha.
Plenty of Korean dramas and K-Pop on Japanese TV. |
I, too lived in Japan for a year and a half, and I can assure you that the Japanese, like Honey Badger, don't give a shit about Takeshima. In fact, Korea never even came up in any conversation I had in a year and a half in Japan. Never mentioned.
From what I could gather, Koreans and Korea seemed to be viewed as a backwards cousin, one that you don't really think about unless they break into your house and try to steal your medication.
Actually I tell a lie. The one time I mentioned I might move to Korea my favourite bar owner (Beatles Bar Ame-Mura - respect!) said with great concern; "dear god, don't do that."
For some of you who have lived in no other country (aside from your home country) except Korea, I think you underestimate how insecure and overly nationalistic Koreans are. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| nero wrote: |
I, too lived in Japan for a year and a half, and I can assure you that the Japanese, like Honey Badger, don't give a shit about Takeshima. In fact, Korea never even came up in any conversation I had in a year and a half in Japan. Never mentioned.
From what I could gather, Koreans and Korea seemed to be viewed as a backwards cousin, one that you don't really think about unless they break into your house and try to steal your medication.
Actually I tell a lie. The one time I mentioned I might move to Korea my favourite bar owner (Beatles Bar Ame-Mura - respect!) said with great concern; "dear god, don't do that."
For some of you who have lived in no other country (aside from your home country) except Korea, I think you underestimate how insecure and overly nationalistic Koreans are. |
A few things:
Living in Japan or (most foreign countries) for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them. That's scratching the surface...if that. Not trying to flame you, simply stating facts.
Next you state that Korea and Koreans seemed to be viewed as a backwards cousin despite having never been mentioned in any conversation (according to you). One wonders how on earth you were able to deduce this despite the topic never being mentioned...but never mind that now.
Finally you state that some people who have never lived in another country "underestimate how insecure and overly nationalistic Koreans are".
How about those of us who have lived in other countries where the jingoism there makes Korea's pale in comparison? |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
How about those of us who have lived in other countries where the jingoism there makes Korea's pale in comparison? |
Name those countries. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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China for one
Russia for another.
Japan is also pretty nationalistic...although it's quieter and not as confrontational. (Uchi-Soto) |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
China for one
Russia for another.
Japan is also pretty nationalistic...although it's quieter and not as confrontational. (Uchi-Soto) |
Have you lived in all three for an extended period of time? |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Would a country where many people put their national flag in their front yard all year round be considered nationalistic?
China? I'd would suspect that the Chinese government officials like to organize things and make a big noise to make it look like everybody is proud to be Chinese......like a slightly toned down version of what the party in North Korea does.
Koreans are as nationalistic as any people I've ever met. They seem to live with their own sense of Korean-ness in a more conscious way than most others. |
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whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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I know that your comments were not directed at me, but I�m interested in something. On the one hand you�ve said:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Living in ... foreign countries for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them. That's scratching the surface...if that. |
Then you've said:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
How about those of us who have lived in other countries where the jingoism there makes Korea's pale in comparison?
China for one
Russia for another.
Japan is also pretty nationalistic...although it's quieter and not as confrontational
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So, tell me, have you lived in Japan, China, Russia and Korea for periods of significantly longer than 1.5 years each? You feel perfectly comfortable to tell us about the opinions of people in those countries. But, by your yardstick, you should've lived in each of them significantly longer than 1.5 years before you can even comment.
Now, I�m perfectly fine with you having an opinion on the attitudes of people in foreign countries. No problem. But, why belittle other people's experiences and impressions? You don't have to accept it as gospel truth, but at least give some creedence to other people's opinions and experiences. What you�ve said smacks of inconsistency. |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| nero wrote: |
I, too lived in Japan for a year and a half, and I can assure you that the Japanese, like Honey Badger, don't give a shit about Takeshima. In fact, Korea never even came up in any conversation I had in a year and a half in Japan. Never mentioned.
From what I could gather, Koreans and Korea seemed to be viewed as a backwards cousin, one that you don't really think about unless they break into your house and try to steal your medication.
Actually I tell a lie. The one time I mentioned I might move to Korea my favourite bar owner (Beatles Bar Ame-Mura - respect!) said with great concern; "dear god, don't do that."
For some of you who have lived in no other country (aside from your home country) except Korea, I think you underestimate how insecure and overly nationalistic Koreans are. |
A few things:
Living in Japan or (most foreign countries) for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them. That's scratching the surface...if that. Not trying to flame you, simply stating facts.
Next you state that Korea and Koreans seemed to be viewed as a backwards cousin despite having never been mentioned in any conversation (according to you). One wonders how on earth you were able to deduce this despite the topic never being mentioned...but never mind that now.
Finally you state that some people who have never lived in another country "underestimate how insecure and overly nationalistic Koreans are".
How about those of us who have lived in other countries where the jingoism there makes Korea's pale in comparison? |
Firstly, the fact that Korea was not significant in the average Japanese person life and was never mentioned for better or worse gave me the impression that they simply really don't give a shit. And is that not how our conclusions are formed? Through gathering our impressions and weighing up the evidence?
Secondly the reason I believe Koreans are seen as backwards came from the response of the bar owner and subsequent conversations I had with Japanese friends back home.
Thirdly, I have lived all over Asia and never encountered the passive-aggressive insecure chest beating that I have seen on the streets, on tv and in general conversation with my Korean co-workers and friends.
This is my opinion, and it is just as valid as yours. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| whanous wrote: |
I know that your comments were not directed at me, but I�m interested in something. On the one hand you�ve said:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Living in ... foreign countries for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them. That's scratching the surface...if that. |
Then you've said:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
How about those of us who have lived in other countries where the jingoism there makes Korea's pale in comparison?
China for one
Russia for another.
Japan is also pretty nationalistic...although it's quieter and not as confrontational
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So, tell me, have you lived in Japan, China, Russia and Korea for periods of significantly longer than 1.5 years each? You feel perfectly comfortable to tell us about the opinions of people in those countries. But, by your yardstick, you should've lived in each of them significantly longer than 1.5 years before you can even comment.
Now, I�m perfectly fine with you having an opinion on the attitudes of people in foreign countries. No problem. But, why belittle other people's experiences and impressions? You don't have to accept it as gospel truth, but at least give some creedence to other people's opinions and experiences. What you�ve said smacks of inconsistency. |
How does it smack of inconsistency? How do you know I haven't lived in each country? Or how do you know that I'm not paraphasing the statements of people who have lived/worked there for periods of significantly longer than 1.5 years?
As it happens I have lived/worked in 3 of the four countries excluding Japan.
But here's a link to a blog by a guy who's apparently worked in Japan for eight years. See...I'm giving credence to other people's opinions and experiences. 
http://www.thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Primer.html
Read numbers 1 and 2. |
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whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| How does it smack of inconsistency? |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As it happens I have lived/worked in 3 of the four countries excluding Japan. |
(How long did you live/work in Russia and China? You have left this information out...)
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Living in ... foreign countries for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Japan is also pretty nationalistic... |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And for those who think the Japanese don't really care |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yeah sure they don't care |
Sir, do I really need to point out the inconsistency here? You have told nero and myself that we are unqulified to comment soley on the basis of how long we have lived in the country. You then commented on the issue yourself and, for some reason, seem to know a lot about Japanese attitudes towards Dokdo/Takeshima.
You set the (unrealistic and arbitrary) standard that someone must have lived in another country for more than a year and a half to be qualified to comment on it. But, apparently, you have a different standard for yourself.
I, personally, don't have problem with people forming an opinion with less than your standard. So long as their opinion is malleable to new information (In fact, regardless of the level of experience, opinions should be malleable to argument). Nero and I both stated that the Dokdo/Takeshima question seems to be a side issue for the average Japanese person. I did not state it as gospel truth. You have ridiculed our opinions and stated that we are "unqualified to comment."
Discussion will never get anywhere if people can't learn to be malleable to argument and treat other people with respect.
If you want to engage in proper discussion, then I am willing. If you simply want to ridicule my opinion and set arbitrary standards so you can justify completely ignoring my comments, then it's really not worth it for anyone involved. I honestly just wanted to give some kind of insight into how the issue is being treated on the other side of the sea. No malice. No agenda. |
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