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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Why is this forum so much more nasty than the other one?
What is it that makes it so?
Same issues, same threads. So much more nastiness here. |
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the_curious
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| One, I'll take my attitude wherever I like. Two, the reason more kindy teachers are women is because employers prefer to hire women for kindy positions. This has nothing to do with whether women themselves prefer singing songs and playing patty cake to, as NYCGirl said, discussing politics (and I resent the implication that it does |
The reason there are more female kindy teachers in Korea may be because Korean employers discriminate against men in their job advertisements. However if you take a Western country like the UK, which has strict laws prohibiting sexual discrimination, primary school teachers are still predominantly female. Suggesting that they do indeed generally prefer working with little kids. |
I think this has more to do with lingering ideas about what kinds of employment a "real man" can take on. Men are a minority in nursing, too, but I don't see anyone arguing that women are more likely to enjoy serving jello to patients and administering injections than men are. Anyways, at the risk of further raising the ire of rainism and "because I'm a woman I speak for all women" NYCGal, I'll drop the subject. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| the_curious wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| One, I'll take my attitude wherever I like. Two, the reason more kindy teachers are women is because employers prefer to hire women for kindy positions. This has nothing to do with whether women themselves prefer singing songs and playing patty cake to, as NYCGirl said, discussing politics (and I resent the implication that it does |
The reason there are more female kindy teachers in Korea may be because Korean employers discriminate against men in their job advertisements. However if you take a Western country like the UK, which has strict laws prohibiting sexual discrimination, primary school teachers are still predominantly female. Suggesting that they do indeed generally prefer working with little kids. |
I think this has more to do with lingering ideas about what kinds of employment a "real man" can take on. Men are a minority in nursing, too, but I don't see anyone arguing that women are more likely to enjoy serving jello to patients and administering injections than men are. Anyways, at the risk of further raising the ire of rainism and "because I'm a woman I speak for all women" NYCGal, I'll drop the subject. |
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Critical-Thinking-Skills-Developing-Effective/dp/1403996857  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I think this has more to do with lingering ideas about what kinds of employment a "real man" can take on. Men are a minority in nursing, too, but I don't see anyone arguing that women are more likely to enjoy serving jello to patients and administering injections than men are. |
That may be so but Rainism just said there were a lot more women 'interested in' or 'willing' to work with little kids. Their motives for this, or men's motives for not being interested or willing to work with little kids is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| the_curious wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One, I'll take my attitude wherever I like. Two, the reason more kindy teachers are women is because employers prefer to hire women for kindy positions. This has nothing to do with whether women themselves prefer singing songs and playing patty cake to, as NYCGirl said, discussing politics (and I resent the implication that it does |
The reason there are more female kindy teachers in Korea may be because Korean employers discriminate against men in their job advertisements. However if you take a Western country like the UK, which has strict laws prohibiting sexual discrimination, primary school teachers are still predominantly female. Suggesting that they do indeed generally prefer working with little kids. |
I think this has more to do with lingering ideas about what kinds of employment a "real man" can take on. Men are a minority in nursing, too, but I don't see anyone arguing that women are more likely to enjoy serving jello to patients and administering injections than men are. Anyways, at the risk of further raising the ire of rainism and "because I'm a woman I speak for all women" NYCGal, I'll drop the subject. |
I'll bet you a hundred dollars. or we can make it a thousand. or feel free to raise the bet.
that if you ask a 1000 men and then a 1000 women, offering them the same employment opportunity at the same price to work as a kindy teacher that there will be a very big gender skew.
it has nothing to do what I "can" take on, more to do with what I "want" to take on. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't believe that I inspired this mess! Working with adults here takes just as much energy as working with kids, only the split shifts don't allow you an entire nights sleep to work with and it's not like you really get to use your critical thinking skills in an adult beginner class. The only difference is in the number of boogers and little accidents that you have to deal with. |
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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'll bet you a hundred dollars. or we can make it a thousand. or feel free to raise the bet.
that if you ask a 1000 men and then a 1000 women, offering them the same employment opportunity at the same price to work as a kindy teacher that there will be a very big gender skew.
it has nothing to do what I "can" take on, more to do with what I "want" to take on. |
And of the 50 odd men that would like to do it, at least 15 will be pedos, and 20 camp!
14 will have mis-read the add and the final 1 will be a 'real man'  |
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the_curious
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| I think this has more to do with lingering ideas about what kinds of employment a "real man" can take on. Men are a minority in nursing, too, but I don't see anyone arguing that women are more likely to enjoy serving jello to patients and administering injections than men are. |
That may be so but Rainism just said there were a lot more women 'interested in' or 'willing' to work with little kids. Their motives for this, or men's motives for not being interested or willing to work with little kids is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. |
Actually he said "this is also why 99% of kindy teachers are female" right after Illysook wrote "Adults don't hug, sing, play games, or do anything else really fun." So motive was actually quite relevant. Additionally, the fact that women dominate the kindergarten teaching profession isn't proof that more women actually enjoy these things, as I tried to demonstrate with the nursing example. I think the fact that more women teach young kids has to do with gender stereotypes, not natural preference.
Out of my mostly female group of friends, none of us particularly enjoy hugging and singing (unless it's in a noraebang and there is alcohol present), but I guess we're just weird. Additionally, I lack critical thinking skills, so feel free to ignore me  But I hate the fact that someone might look at me and just because I'm a woman, assume I like these things more than the man sitting next to me. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think the fact that more women teach young kids has to do with gender stereotypes, not natural preference.
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So you think society is pressurizing women to become nurses and kindy teachers against their will? That may have been true a few years ago but in the West, women have a pretty free rein to enter the field of their choice these days. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| I think the fact that more women teach young kids has to do with gender stereotypes, not natural preference. |
great!
and I think you're wrong and am willing to back up that bluster with any amount of money you'd care to lose. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
| I can't believe that I inspired this mess! Working with adults here takes just as much energy as working with kids, only the split shifts don't allow you an entire nights sleep to work with and it's not like you really get to use your critical thinking skills in an adult beginner class. The only difference is in the number of boogers and little accidents that you have to deal with. |
You didn't. Some people are just happy to be negative and to argue and fuss where no argument or fussing are called for. They go through life as miserable as possible and try to make everyone around them equally so.
So don't blame yourself and please don't blame me. If they are that intent on being miserable, who are you and I to convince them otherwise? |
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carleverson
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
| I can't believe that I inspired this mess! Working with adults here takes just as much energy as working with kids, only the split shifts don't allow you an entire nights sleep to work with and it's not like you really get to use your critical thinking skills in an adult beginner class. The only difference is in the number of boogers and little accidents that you have to deal with. |
maybe you're simply not smart enough to teach adults? |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see that anybody is being genuinely 'nasty' here on this thread. I feel for you because it's bad to be fired and it can be a real lottery finding a good employer in Korea.
However, it's likely you are not suited for adult teaching. Korean adult students do not demand games and those kinds of activities from what I know. They ARE fussy about what they want and they want competent, professional teachers who can stimulate their interest and be clear about what they are teaching. They expect their foreign teacher to be well dressed, articulate and to not turn up late or just hand over a text book and let them get on with it.
If you enjoy teaching kids then I suggest you stick with it. Adult students are not correct in their complaints 100 percent of the time but I teach some students who quit other hagwons because they were dissatisfied with the teaching they received from foreign teachers. Common complaints were that they were happy to sit back and let students do pair work so they could relax, they visibly showed they were tired or not interested, they did not dress appropriately, and they simply did not have the grammatical knowledge or sufficient skills to explain in simple English various structures etc.
Sometimes you can be hamstrung by teaching a boring book or you get students who just want free talking instead of the curriculum you are supposed to teach. That can be a problem but you have to deal with those issues tactfully. Some native English speakers do not have the personal skills as well as sufficient knowledge of their own language to deal with these and other issues teaching adults.
Plus a hagwon is a business. If you don't get enough students signing or re-signing you won't be around later. That's business, harsh as it sounds. I hope you find a job that suits you better because yes, teaching adults does require a level of skill in different ways that maybe you don't have. |
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jamasian
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: Graces |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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I think the fact that more women teach young kids has to do with gender stereotypes, not natural preference.
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So you think society is pressurizing women to become nurses and kindy teachers against their will? That may have been true a few years ago but in the West, women have a pretty free rein to enter the field of their choice these days. |
I don't know buddy. Demanding women to fill these positions and making it seem like the woman that gets hired will get great benefits can ultimately force a woman to say "Fine. I'll take your stupid kindy."
These women could be turned down for other jobs that we have the "opportunity" to get. It's more like we have the opportunity to apply.
But for the topic's sake, it's best to find out what kind of students you do best with early. That way you can prepare yourself for each day and get comfortable with the idea of teaching them for however many years. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| maybe you're simply not smart enough to teach adults? :lol |
The idea that one must be smarter or more knowlegable to teach adults is a fallacy. Teaching children or true beginners takes more knowlege and skill not less, plus you have to effectively manage your classroom before you can really teach them anything.
Korean adults tend to be false beginners and they make a lot of assumptions about how they should learn English that may not be based on anything factual. For example, if they think that the teacher who assigns pairwork is "lazy" well, that isn't necessarily the case. Listening in on the conversations and taking notes for error correction is hard to do while one is also leading the discussion. Taking time to step back and observe, and perhaps help struggling students is pretty important, plus the students can get more practice time in this way than if everyone had to wait his or her time to get a few moments of the teacher's attention.
I personally am looking forward to applying some of the things that I learned from the CELTA training to the children that I will be teaching. They will learn quickly and it's going to be rewarding in a way that teaching adults really wasn't. |
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