|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Completely agree fella, this Urban myth's argument does not stand at all. Where I live Koreans are obsessed with their Koreaness, I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country but here it's mind numbing. I'm surprised with the number of foreigners who are bringing up their mixed kids up where I am at. Racism and nationalism is rife and that's just the gov.!!!!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
oldtrafford
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Japanese blog he posted makes very interesting reading, I wonder how true it tis?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
The thing is, I quite like it here, for the most part. I just wish Koreans didn't have to beat their chests about every little thing. It reminds me of being in NZ, and NZer's going on and on about some tiny achievement and thinking the whole world is talking about it when no-one cares. They especially do this when it comes to Australia (I am a kiwi).
I guess it is the little brother mentality, but I hated it in NZ and I hate it here. It makes people seem so provincial and insecure and unable to see the bigger (more important?) picture.
/end thread hijack |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
\Re-hijack thread
| nero wrote: |
They especially do this when it comes to Australia (I am a kiwi).
|
I'm Aussie. Haha. I was pretty surprised to hear how NZers talk about us. Two of my best mates in Nippon were Kiwi. They never let up! Haha. We give you guys a little bit. But, $#!+, you guys give it to us twenty fold. Haha. Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself! /End hijack thread
| nero wrote: |
| The Japanese blog he posted makes very interesting reading |
I found it an interesting read, too. I had a good laugh at a few things, especially the �Let�s have dinner together� thing 
I had that experience with a lassie� Instead of not showing up, she brought two of her girlfriends along... Talk about awkward 
Just note where he says:
| Quote: |
| The contents of this site center more on the negative aspects than the positive ones since these are what make life for westerners more difficult. |
I'd be inclined to agree with most of what he said. However, (even though I'm unqualified to comment) I�d say that a lot of what he says probably lies more with the older generation than he makes out. You'll find a fair few in the younger generation who are bucking a lot of those trends. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| oldtrafford wrote: |
| Completely agree fella, this Urban myth's argument does not stand at all. Where I live Koreans are obsessed with their Koreaness, I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country but here it's mind numbing. I'm surprised with the number of foreigners who are bringing up their mixed kids up where I am at. Racism and nationalism is rife and that's just the gov.!!!! |
This. It is mind numbingly obnoxious but I do understand why they are like it, based ontheir insecurities due to their tumultuous history.
The japanese are just as bad, but they at least keep it to themselves rather than having to bore me senseless and make me lose respect for them constantly.
Guess I'm just lucky I'm from a country with no little man syndrome at the moment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bbud656
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Some people on this forum are so entertaining. Whenever a slightly controversial thread comes up, I love guessing how these dudes are going to justify their fantasy world. You guys know who you are, but I just want to thank you for making my dull time at work appear to fly by. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whanous wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| How does it smack of inconsistency? |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As it happens I have lived/worked in 3 of the four countries excluding Japan. |
(How long did you live/work in Russia and China? You have left this information out...)
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Living in ... foreign countries for a year and half does not really qualify you to comment on them |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Japan is also pretty nationalistic... |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And for those who think the Japanese don't really care |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yeah sure they don't care |
Sir, do I really need to point out the inconsistency here? You have told nero and myself that we are unqulified to comment soley on the basis of how long we have lived in the country. You then commented on the issue yourself and, for some reason, seem to know a lot about Japanese attitudes towards Dokdo/Takeshima.
You set the (unrealistic and arbitrary) standard that someone must have lived in another country for more than a year and a half to be qualified to comment on it. But, apparently, you have a different standard for yourself.
I, personally, don't have problem with people forming an opinion with less than your standard. So long as their opinion is malleable to new information (In fact, regardless of the level of experience, opinions should be malleable to argument). Nero and I both stated that the Dokdo/Takeshima question seems to be a side issue for the average Japanese person. I did not state it as gospel truth. You have ridiculed our opinions and stated that we are "unqualified to comment."
Discussion will never get anywhere if people can't learn to be malleable to argument and treat other people with respect.
If you want to engage in proper discussion, then I am willing. If you simply want to ridicule my opinion and set arbitrary standards so you can justify completely ignoring my comments, then it's really not worth it for anyone involved. I honestly just wanted to give some kind of insight into how the issue is being treated on the other side of the sea. No malice. No agenda. |
Nope. I set the same standard for myself as for everyone. I didn't say how long I have been in Russia and China and give details, because quite frankly I don't feel like sharing personal info about my life on a public messageboard and it's off topic anyway. And where did I ridicule yours and nero's opinions? I disagreed with them 'tis true, but I also specifically stated "Not trying to flame you".
As for stating that Dokdo/Takeshima seems to be a side question...sorry sir but that is not at all what nero wrote
"I, too lived in Japan for a year and a half, and I can ASSURE you that the Japanese, like Honey badger, don't give a **** about Takeshima"
(capitals and asterisks are mine)
Perhaps nero didn't mean to state it as gospel truth...but assuring someone that things are so, is pretty much doing so.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oldtrafford wrote: |
| Completely agree fella, this Urban myth's argument does not stand at all. Where I live Koreans are obsessed with their Koreaness, I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country but here it's mind numbing. I'm surprised with the number of foreigners who are bringing up their mixed kids up where I am at. Racism and nationalism is rife and that's just the gov.!!!! |
So first you state that my argument does not stand up at all, and then you go on to state that Koreans are nationalistic.
Perhaps if you had taken the time to read instead of being in such a hurry to bash, you might have seen that NOWHERE did I say that Koreans are NOT nationalistic.
I simply pointed out that other countries are at least as nationalistic or more so.
The military posturing of China and Russia (for one example see the joint drill they conducted) is far more worrying than anything South Korea has done.
And in the blog about Japan it was stated that it was almost impossible for foreigners to get credit cards or an apartment. While on these very forums plenty of people have claimed to be able to get a credit card or apartment in South Korea.
Does South Korea have anything like this?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ptei_russian-skinheads-attacking-immigra_news
Or does it threaten other nations with war a la China vs Taiwan over nationalistic issues?
So go on and post all the eye rolls you want...but be sure to save a few for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sir, there is really no point in me continuing this. You seriously need to take a look at your previous posts and think about what it means to constructively discuss an issue. Zero credence was given to my comments, even after I went through your link to �嫌いな国は?� and tried to share some insight into what the Japanese comments actually said. I was disregarded for seemingly arbitrary reasons and you continued to assume you knew more about Japanese attitudes toward Dokdo/Takeshima.
The double standard is painfully obvious.
I�m willing to discuss when discussion is fruitful and open. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whanous wrote: |
| . I was disregarded for seemingly arbitrary reasons . |
That was NERO I was speaking to not you.
But yes, if you insist on taking my replies to ANOTHER poster as meant to include you, there is probably not much point in continuing this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whanous wrote: |
[
(1) Sir, do I really need to point out the inconsistency here? You have told nero and myself that we are unqulified to comment soley on the basis of how long we have lived in the country. You then commented on the issue yourself and, for some reason, seem to know a lot about Japanese attitudes towards Dokdo/Takeshima.
(2) You set the (unrealistic and arbitrary) standard that someone must have lived in another country for more than a year and a half to be qualified to comment on it. But, apparently, you have a different standard for yourself.
(3) I, personally, don't have problem with people forming an opinion with less than your standard. So long as their opinion is malleable to new information (In fact, regardless of the level of experience, opinions should be malleable to argument). Nero and I both stated that the Dokdo/Takeshima question seems to be a side issue for the average Japanese person. I did not state it as gospel truth. You have ridiculed our opinions and stated that we are "unqualified to comment."
(4) Discussion will never get anywhere if people can't learn to be malleable to argument and treat other people with respect.
(5) If you want to engage in proper discussion, then I am willing. If you simply want to ridicule my opinion and set arbitrary standards so you can justify completely ignoring my comments, then it's really not worth it for anyone involved. I honestly just wanted to give some kind of insight into how the issue is being treated on the other side of the sea. No malice. No agenda. |
(numbers are mine)
1. I never said that opinions should be disregarded solely on the basis of how long one has lived there. I pointed out that living there for a short period of time does not qualify one to make accurate comments about a society. Quite different. Please don't misrepresent me or yes there is not much point in this discussion.
2. Perhaps you would like to show me this different standard. Specifically where did I say I was in Russia or China for only 1.5 years or less?
You can't because I never said it or implied it. Is this misrepresentation or misunderstanding on your part\.
3. Tell me though at what level of experience ARE people qualified to comment? One day? Six months? Surely people should have SOME experience with the society they are commenting on? I take it that you don't advocate that people should speak from a position of absolute ignorance...so how much experience should they have?
I maintain that 1.5 years is not enough to make accurate judgments about an entire country and the entire population. About an area you lived in yes, but that was not under discussion.
4. True. It will also never get anywhere if the other person insists on rephrasing the first person's comments.
5. Not quite sure where I ridiculed YOUR opinion...? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My initial post was simply regarding the attitudes of the average Japanese person to Dokdo/Takeshima. I told you what my experience had been and what average Japanese people had said about the issue. I interpreted the link you gave and tried to share some insight.
I was completely ignored (i.e. disregarded). You stated that a person must have lived somewhere for far more than a year and a half to be qualified to comment. It seems that you didn't even consider the merit to what I wrote, on account of only having only lived there for 20 months.
It seems you already have an opinion on this and you are not malleable to discussion.
When you can just entertain the idea that it's not as an important issue in their psyche than you may think, then we'll be getting somewhere.
My aim is not to convince you, only to make you think.
| Quote: |
| Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their prejudices |
. � William James |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whanous wrote: |
My initial post was simply regarding the attitudes of the average Japanese person to Dokdo/Takeshima. I told you what my experience had been and what average Japanese people had said about the issue. I interpreted the link you gave and tried to share some insight.
I was completely ignored (i.e. disregarded). You stated that a person must have lived somewhere for far more than a year and a half to be qualified to comment. |
To comment on the country as a WHOLE, not on the opinions of the Japanese people you personally met and your experiences. You are perfectly entitled to comment on the latter which is why I didn't reply to that.
Those are two different things.
Nero wrote that s/he could assure me the JAPANESE don't care about the Dokdo/Takeshima isssue. THAT was what I took issue with.
But I NEVER said that you couldn't comment on your experiences and the opinions of the Japanese people you met...in fact after you posted that I never said anything at all until nero made a much more sweeping claim.
| Quote: |
| When you can just entertain the idea that it's not as an important issue in their psyche than you may think... |
Only as regards my point to nero... this is not what I am getting at.
But if it comes to that it would seem that SOME Japanese regard it as an important issue indeed.
| Quote: |
This led the prefecture's politicians to ask the central government to assert Japan's sovereignty over Takeshima. But central government officials and national politicians have been very reluctant to take any actions, apparently seeking to avoid another row with Seoul. This is the reason critics say Tokyo officials and politicians may have been asleep at the switch. Fueling the feud was Seoul's decision in 2002 to turn the islands into a national park and South Korea's issue of a national stamp January 2004, which featured Tokdo. Shimane prefectural assembly members were upset by Tokyo's decision not to play up the problem. Particularly, the prefecture has long requested that the central government give the same attention to Takeshima as it does to the Northern Territories, the four islands off Hokkaido that are held by Russia but claimed by Japan.
According to a Mainichi Shimbun report, a fishery cooperative in Oki Island, the closest island to Takeshima, has fishing rights within a 500-meter radius of Takeshima. But the cooperative's vessels cannot go near the disputed islands, since they would be arrested by South Korean authorities. Seoul has a small military garrison on one of the islets. Fish catches off Oki in 2003 totaled 70,000 tons, less than half of 1993, the Mainichi Shimbun reported.
Frustrated by Tokyo's inaction on the Takeshima matter, the Shimane prefecture has taken a first step toward declaring its ownership of Takeshima. Seoul reacted with fury. South Korea postponed a scheduled visit by Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon. The governor of Kyongsangbuk-do province said he was severing all sister-city ties with Shimane prefecture and recalled all of staff from Shimane. Many cultural and sports exchanges and sister-city programs involving the two countries' local governments, including Iwate, Nagano, Aomori and Saitama prefectures on Japan's side, have been canceled because of concerns over intensifying anti-Japanese feelings in South Korea. |
(bolding mine)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GC23Dh03.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whanous
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So, are you saying you considered what I wrote? Did you take on board that I had interpreted '嫌いな国は?' for you? Are you saying you payed credence to the idea that the average Japanese person might not find the issue all that important?
Because you certainly haven't shown any of those things up to this point. You've simply made your own comments on the nation as a whole (Yep. Look through your previous posts).
If you've honestly considered these things, then I'm happy enough. In future, perhaps respond by acknowledging the merit in what someone has said.
Perhaps we could have had a constructive discussion, as opposed to 'talking past' each other. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whanous wrote: |
So, are you saying you considered what I wrote? Did you take on board that I had interpreted '嫌いな国は?' for you? Are you saying you payed credence to the idea that the average Japanese person might not find the issue all that important?
Because you certainly haven't shown any of those things up to this point. You've simply made your own comments on the nation as a whole (Yep. Look through your previous posts).
If you've honestly considered these things, then I'm happy enough. In future, perhaps respond by acknowledging the merit in what someone has said.
Perhaps we could have had a constructive discussion, as opposed to 'talking past' each other. |
I considered these things. In fact I wasn't even going to respond (I was happy enough to let your post (about the interpretation) stand as the last word on the subject.
But then another poster made a sweeping generalization...which I consider I have shown indisputably incorrect in the link I provided in my post prior to this one. SOME Japanese indisputably do care.
Oh and could you show where exactly in this thread I made comments on the nation as a whole which weren't founded in reality? The only comment I see is the one where I said the Japanese were pretty nationalistic as well...BASED ON THE EXPERIENCE OF some foreigners in Japan (I even posted the link to one of them as well) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
