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Peter258
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Peter258 wrote: |
our contract says 10 days, but 3 of those days are set in the beginning of august for everyone, so that leaves 7 days that we can request off.
for the past couple months, our schedules were so packed that no one was allowed to get vacation days on mondays or fridays. they told us that instead they could compensate us for unused vacation at the end of our contracts
but next week, there are no classes on thurs and fri, so they are trying to force me to take those days off. they say that if i don't take them, they might not compensate me for unused vacation time. |
| Quote: |
one thing I left out -
I have already completed my contract. I have an f4 visa. I agreed to stay an extra couple months, but I didn't sign any new contract. Basically, I am working without a contract right now. I've already been paid my severance.
before I finished my contract, they were trying to prevent me from taking days off, saying "oh since you are staying a little longer you can take your days off in the end". |
The contract is what you and your employer should go by. It's typical that the school either sets the vacation days or limits your choices. However, if your contract states that your employer has 3 set days and has used them then you should be able to choose, within the limits of days you can't have.
Vacation is a difficult benefit to manage since a business needs to keep operating in the absence of its worker(s). Temps are sometimes used, but are generally not available for Foreign teacher spots in Korea. In the US it's common that you can take no days during your first year, but that you will earn vacation during that year to be used in the second year. There are many businesses that close and give everyone the same days off. There are many others that allow you to choose, but you have to put in a request. Some time periods are busy - no vacation allowed, and other time periods are limited with prefernce by seniority usually.
Since you have already gone past the end of your contract, however, you should try to get cash compensation for the vacation days you haven't used. Two of those are coming up - your forced vacation days.
I say that two of those are coming, because it's not clear whether you are still working under your old contract or no contract at all. Did you sign a new contract or an extension?
So, if you have no contract your employer can assign any days he wants. But you have an F4 visa meaning you are free to leave any time you want.
The matter of 2 days - especially since you won't be working but will be paid - is too small to fight about even in small claims court. What damages could you hope to win? The court could decide that you are correct but have been paid enough. Even an extra two days' pay isn't worth the battle.
What you really need to do is settle up with your school for all unpaid amounts, such as vacation days, as well as come to some agreement as to a contract to cover your continuing employment. If you can't come to reasonable terms you are truly free to leave - F4 and no contract, means no Immi problems and no contract problems if you leave. This means that you have quite a bit of leverage in an extension contract negotiation. |
no, I did not sign any contract extension. since I have the f visa, my manager figured he didn't need to.
My contract ended awhile ago, and the only reason I did not ask for cash reimbursement for unused vacation was because I thought I might wanna use them later. Also, during the summer time, my manager was trying to prevent me from taking a few days off, and he said that I could use them in the fall time instead. Well, fall time came and our new schedules made it impossible for anyone to take days off.
Previous employees who left were compensated for unused vacation, so if he doesn't pay it for them, it will just be out of spite. |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| sing81 wrote: |
Yes, he is a poser. I don't know why but there are a couple of Koreans on here pretending to be native speakers, but their English is always off and they give themselves away. What is their purpose I don't know? But this board is not for you, if you are not going to contribute in a polite and helpful manner. |
There are also idoits on here, so you have to watch out for them, and of course heed their advice with only a grain of salt. Reader beware! |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| cincynate wrote: |
| sing81 wrote: |
Yes, he is a poser. I don't know why but there are a couple of Koreans on here pretending to be native speakers, but their English is always off and they give themselves away. What is their purpose I don't know? But this board is not for you, if you are not going to contribute in a polite and helpful manner. |
There are also idoits on here, so you have to watch out for them, and of course heed their advice with only a grain of salt. Reader beware! |
Yup ^^
If you can't spot a Korean posing as a native speaker a mile away, then you deserve to be fooled and waste your time. This is also where Ks come to gather info, make silly rules and screw the majority of people over for comments by a few dolts. I'd bet Daves is a source for many of the regs passed in K, affecting NETs and other foreigners.
Good luck, OP! 
I never understood why someone would subject themselves to a hagwon environment for only 10 days of absolute sanity. It seems some aren't even getting that. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't thoroughly read the thread but the gist makes me think that your boss just cheated you out of getting vacation days or vacation pay.
I don't claim to be an expert, but no current contract means you may have very little support for getting your vacation pay. I don't know why you didn't make your boss draw up a new contract for your extension, but please don't let that happen again in the future.
My suggestion is that you wait until someone with more knowledge lends you advice. ontheway, ttompatz, and TheUrbanMyth are a few experienced folks in this regard off the top of my head. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| itistime wrote: |
| cincynate wrote: |
| sing81 wrote: |
Yes, he is a poser. I don't know why but there are a couple of Koreans on here pretending to be native speakers, but their English is always off and they give themselves away. What is their purpose I don't know? But this board is not for you, if you are not going to contribute in a polite and helpful manner. |
There are also idoits on here, so you have to watch out for them, and of course heed their advice with only a grain of salt. Reader beware! |
Yup ^^
If you can't spot a Korean posing as a native speaker a mile away, then you deserve to be fooled and waste your time. This is also where Ks come to gather info, make silly rules and screw the majority of people over for comments by a few dolts. I'd bet Daves is a source for many of the regs passed in K, affecting NETs and other foreigners.
Good luck, OP!
I never understood why someone would subject themselves to a hagwon environment for only 10 days of absolute sanity. It seems some aren't even getting that. |
Ok, let's see this guy get his vacation money. I am willing to admit when I am wrong. |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Not saying OP will get the vacay money.
Just saying if OP was smart, then he wouldn't be in
this situation. Sometimes you only need to tell people
what you think they need to know.
In retrospect, I wonder if the OP thinks that his
former employer needed to know all of these details.
Ignorance is bliss...depending on which end you are on.
Regardless, I would never work for a shoddy outfit to begin
with. I suppose that may have happened in high school, but
I've learned my lessons on job searching, acquisition and
satisfaction in the workplace.
Still, good luck. |
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Peter258
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I didn't thoroughly read the thread but the gist makes me think that your boss just cheated you out of getting vacation days or vacation pay.
I don't claim to be an expert, but no current contract means you may have very little support for getting your vacation pay. I don't know why you didn't make your boss draw up a new contract for your extension, but please don't let that happen again in the future.
My suggestion is that you wait until someone with more knowledge lends you advice. ontheway, ttompatz, and TheUrbanMyth are a few experienced folks in this regard off the top of my head. |
Last edited by Peter258 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Peter258 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Peter258 wrote: |
our contract says 10 days, but 3 of those days are set in the beginning of august for everyone, so that leaves 7 days that we can request off.
for the past couple months, our schedules were so packed that no one was allowed to get vacation days on mondays or fridays. they told us that instead they could compensate us for unused vacation at the end of our contracts
but next week, there are no classes on thurs and fri, so they are trying to force me to take those days off. they say that if i don't take them, they might not compensate me for unused vacation time. |
| Quote: |
one thing I left out -
I have already completed my contract. I have an f4 visa. I agreed to stay an extra couple months, but I didn't sign any new contract. Basically, I am working without a contract right now. I've already been paid my severance.
before I finished my contract, they were trying to prevent me from taking days off, saying "oh since you are staying a little longer you can take your days off in the end". |
The contract is what you and your employer should go by. It's typical that the school either sets the vacation days or limits your choices. However, if your contract states that your employer has 3 set days and has used them then you should be able to choose, within the limits of days you can't have.
Vacation is a difficult benefit to manage since a business needs to keep operating in the absence of its worker(s). Temps are sometimes used, but are generally not available for Foreign teacher spots in Korea. In the US it's common that you can take no days during your first year, but that you will earn vacation during that year to be used in the second year. There are many businesses that close and give everyone the same days off. There are many others that allow you to choose, but you have to put in a request. Some time periods are busy - no vacation allowed, and other time periods are limited with prefernce by seniority usually.
Since you have already gone past the end of your contract, however, you should try to get cash compensation for the vacation days you haven't used. Two of those are coming up - your forced vacation days.
I say that two of those are coming, because it's not clear whether you are still working under your old contract or no contract at all. Did you sign a new contract or an extension?
So, if you have no contract your employer can assign any days he wants. But you have an F4 visa meaning you are free to leave any time you want.
The matter of 2 days - especially since you won't be working but will be paid - is too small to fight about even in small claims court. What damages could you hope to win? The court could decide that you are correct but have been paid enough. Even an extra two days' pay isn't worth the battle.
What you really need to do is settle up with your school for all unpaid amounts, such as vacation days, as well as come to some agreement as to a contract to cover your continuing employment. If you can't come to reasonable terms you are truly free to leave - F4 and no contract, means no Immi problems and no contract problems if you leave. This means that you have quite a bit of leverage in an extension contract negotiation. |
no, I did not sign any contract extension. since I have the f visa, my manager figured he didn't need to.
My contract ended awhile ago, and the only reason I did not ask for cash reimbursement for unused vacation was because I thought I might wanna use them later. Also, during the summer time, my manager was trying to prevent me from taking a few days off, and he said that I could use them in the fall time instead. Well, fall time came and our new schedules made it impossible for anyone to take days off.
Previous employees who left were compensated for unused vacation, so if he doesn't pay it for them, it will just be out of spite. |
Now this is more clear. Plus, I've read your latest problem with airfare.
The problem is, you should have signed a contract to cover your extended time.
You see, while it's true that you don't need a contract for Immigration purposes, since you are on an F4 visa and not an E2, but that does not in any way mean that you don't need a contract.
In this case, it is plain to see that you absolutely do need a contract. Your employer is messing with you. He can do it because you don't have a contract and he is not an honorable person.
When your original contract ended, you had unused vacation days. Since you were never allowed to use these and he had offered to pay them in cash, you should have demanded the cash then. This could have been done as a clause in your extension agreement. You set a date certain to receive cash to cover any and all outstanding amounts from the previous contract. Get it in writing before you work a day under the extension.
Remember, this extension is an agreement between the parties as to how they will continue their business relationship after the expiration of the first contract. It is a good idea for anyone, even if you are a Korean citizen - and is not just for E visa holders.
As it stands, your boss already owes you for unpaid vacation days. That money should already be yours. He is essentially telling you that you will be forced to take unpaid vacation days at his whim. When he pays you for two days for the two days you are told not to come, he is paying you with money that is already your money. You have earned it as part of the first contract. It was part of your original compensation package. It is yours already. You have earned it.
But, since you have no contract now, he can do anything. He can tell you what days and hours he will pay you for. When to come. Change the hours. Anything on a whim. He can change your rate of pay effective on a moment's notice. You have nothing to claim that he has any other obligation to you.
So, your boss can force you to take unpaid vacation days - which is what you are getting - and then pretend to pay you with money that is already your money. If you quit and leave and do not stay for those days he would still owe you the money that he was going to give you for those days. NO contract means you are getting screwed.
You can still write up a contract to cover your situation. I see from the other thread you've started that he also owes you for airfare and is playing games with that too. Your airfare is also an earned amount from your first contract, part of your original contract and due to you immediately.
So, you will need to write a contract extension. This may be a difficult job to do well. You need to spell out that this is an extension for an upspecified period of time (from what you've said I don't think you want a fixed time period, beginning from the last day covered by the first contract. So, you call it employment at will, and build in a reasonable amount of notice for both parties to teminate. Specify pay and benefits.
First, you write a letter to your employer explaining the problems you are having withou a contract, the amounts still due to you and that if you cannot come to some understanding you will have stop working immediately and to ask for all amounts due (specified in the letter) to be paid immediately - actually, you should make sure you give him at least 24 hours to go over it, think, lick his wounds and either give in or watch you leave. Of course you must be prepared to walk, but perhaps you are and if you can't get a reasonable agreement, you should.
Then, at the same meeting, you present your extension contract to your employer. The contract does not have to be for a year or for any specified period. It can be open ended with termination by notification.
It will be very important to include a clause specifying all amounts still due from the first contract and a date they must be paid by.
You should get money for your airfare and unpaid vacation days from your first contract immediately - specified in the extension contract, and have vacation accruing in your new contract as well.
Under the airfare clause, you should also build in a bonus to be paid in cash every 6 months in lieu of airfare. Since airfare is part of the normal compensation package, you should still get this money. It costs the school nothing extra to pay this and you will have earned it just the same as a teacher who comes for only one year. Many schools do this for renewals and in-country hires. |
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Peter258
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: |
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|
| ontheway wrote: |
| Peter258 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Peter258 wrote: |
our contract says 10 days, but 3 of those days are set in the beginning of august for everyone, so that leaves 7 days that we can request off.
for the past couple months, our schedules were so packed that no one was allowed to get vacation days on mondays or fridays. they told us that instead they could compensate us for unused vacation at the end of our contracts
but next week, there are no classes on thurs and fri, so they are trying to force me to take those days off. they say that if i don't take them, they might not compensate me for unused vacation time. |
| Quote: |
one thing I left out -
I have already completed my contract. I have an f4 visa. I agreed to stay an extra couple months, but I didn't sign any new contract. Basically, I am working without a contract right now. I've already been paid my severance.
before I finished my contract, they were trying to prevent me from taking days off, saying "oh since you are staying a little longer you can take your days off in the end". |
The contract is what you and your employer should go by. It's typical that the school either sets the vacation days or limits your choices. However, if your contract states that your employer has 3 set days and has used them then you should be able to choose, within the limits of days you can't have.
Vacation is a difficult benefit to manage since a business needs to keep operating in the absence of its worker(s). Temps are sometimes used, but are generally not available for Foreign teacher spots in Korea. In the US it's common that you can take no days during your first year, but that you will earn vacation during that year to be used in the second year. There are many businesses that close and give everyone the same days off. There are many others that allow you to choose, but you have to put in a request. Some time periods are busy - no vacation allowed, and other time periods are limited with prefernce by seniority usually.
Since you have already gone past the end of your contract, however, you should try to get cash compensation for the vacation days you haven't used. Two of those are coming up - your forced vacation days.
I say that two of those are coming, because it's not clear whether you are still working under your old contract or no contract at all. Did you sign a new contract or an extension?
So, if you have no contract your employer can assign any days he wants. But you have an F4 visa meaning you are free to leave any time you want.
The matter of 2 days - especially since you won't be working but will be paid - is too small to fight about even in small claims court. What damages could you hope to win? The court could decide that you are correct but have been paid enough. Even an extra two days' pay isn't worth the battle.
What you really need to do is settle up with your school for all unpaid amounts, such as vacation days, as well as come to some agreement as to a contract to cover your continuing employment. If you can't come to reasonable terms you are truly free to leave - F4 and no contract, means no Immi problems and no contract problems if you leave. This means that you have quite a bit of leverage in an extension contract negotiation. |
no, I did not sign any contract extension. since I have the f visa, my manager figured he didn't need to.
My contract ended awhile ago, and the only reason I did not ask for cash reimbursement for unused vacation was because I thought I might wanna use them later. Also, during the summer time, my manager was trying to prevent me from taking a few days off, and he said that I could use them in the fall time instead. Well, fall time came and our new schedules made it impossible for anyone to take days off.
Previous employees who left were compensated for unused vacation, so if he doesn't pay it for them, it will just be out of spite. |
Now this is more clear. Plus, I've read your latest problem with airfare.
The problem is, you should have signed a contract to cover your extended time.
You see, while it's true that you don't need a contract for Immigration purposes, since you are on an F4 visa and not an E2, but that does not in any way mean that you don't need a contract.
In this case, it is plain to see that you absolutely do need a contract. Your employer is messing with you. He can do it because you don't have a contract and he is not an honorable person.
When your original contract ended, you had unused vacation days. Since you were never allowed to use these and he had offered to pay them in cash, you should have demanded the cash then. This could have been done as a clause in your extension agreement. You set a date certain to receive cash to cover any and all outstanding amounts from the previous contract. Get it in writing before you work a day under the extension.
Remember, this extension is an agreement between the parties as to how they will continue their business relationship after the expiration of the first contract. It is a good idea for anyone, even if you are a Korean citizen - and is not just for E visa holders.
As it stands, your boss already owes you for unpaid vacation days. That money should already be yours. He is essentially telling you that you will be forced to take unpaid vacation days at his whim. When he pays you for two days for the two days you are told not to come, he is paying you with money that is already your money. You have earned it as part of the first contract. It was part of your original compensation package. It is yours already. You have earned it.
But, since you have no contract now, he can do anything. He can tell you what days and hours he will pay you for. When to come. Change the hours. Anything on a whim. He can change your rate of pay effective on a moment's notice. You have nothing to claim that he has any other obligation to you.
So, your boss can force you to take unpaid vacation days - which is what you are getting - and then pretend to pay you with money that is already your money. If you quit and leave and do not stay for those days he would still owe you the money that he was going to give you for those days. NO contract means you are getting screwed.
You can still write up a contract to cover your situation. I see from the other thread you've started that he also owes you for airfare and is playing games with that too. Your airfare is also an earned amount from your first contract, part of your original contract and due to you immediately.
So, you will need to write a contract extension. This may be a difficult job to do well. You need to spell out that this is an extension for an upspecified period of time (from what you've said I don't think you want a fixed time period, beginning from the last day covered by the first contract. So, you call it employment at will, and build in a reasonable amount of notice for both parties to teminate. Specify pay and benefits.
First, you write a letter to your employer explaining the problems you are having withou a contract, the amounts still due to you and that if you cannot come to some understanding you will have stop working immediately and to ask for all amounts due (specified in the letter) to be paid immediately - actually, you should make sure you give him at least 24 hours to go over it, think, lick his wounds and either give in or watch you leave. Of course you must be prepared to walk, but perhaps you are and if you can't get a reasonable agreement, you should.
Then, at the same meeting, you present your extension contract to your employer. The contract does not have to be for a year or for any specified period. It can be open ended with termination by notification.
It will be very important to include a clause specifying all amounts still due from the first contract and a date they must be paid by.
You should get money for your airfare and unpaid vacation days from your first contract immediately - specified in the extension contract, and have vacation accruing in your new contract as well.
Under the airfare clause, you should also build in a bonus to be paid in cash every 6 months in lieu of airfare. Since airfare is part of the normal compensation package, you should still get this money. It costs the school nothing extra to pay this and you will have earned it just the same as a teacher who comes for only one year. Many schools do this for renewals and in-country hires. |
Thanks for the information.
I thought the situation works both ways though. Since he knows that I have no contract, shouldn't I be treated better to make sure I don't pull a runner? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Peter258 wrote: |
Thanks for the information.
I thought the situation works both ways though. Since he knows that I have no contract, shouldn't I be treated better to make sure I don't pull a runner? |
In terms of risk arising from lack of a contract, yes it works both ways. Either could cheat the other, so both are at risk. You would think your boss would want a contract extension as well.
Now imagine you are alone with a man, a stranger, in an elevator. No one else is there. Either of you is at risk from the other. So, both of you should be equally wary.
Now imagine:
The other man is Hannibal Lecter. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:45 am Post subject: Re: Can your hagwon force you to take vacation days? |
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| Peter258 wrote: |
| Just curious, can they force you to take them at a certain date? For example,, if there are no classes on one day, the hagwon might want teachers to take the days off. |
I put the vacation in the contract. Therefore they know one year ahead what Holidays they will be getting.
You sign, you agree. |
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