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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| He's not asking for a second severance, a second air-fare or anything outside of what was already agreed to in the contract. Again, you need to think about what you write a bit more. Your are not making sense. |
Say that to labor board then. I am not the one to convince. If it were within my powers, I'd give you all a million severances. I can't. I can only look at things in a sensible manner.
1. The school needs a teacher
2. The school pays airfare for the teacher to come
3. The school then pays airfare for the teacher to go home
In the end, the teacher gets ZERO airfare:
What you are proposing is:
4. The school needs a teacher
5. The school pays airfare for the teacher to come
6. The teacher stays in the country with school 2
7. The teacher then pockets the airfare home which was intended for line 3
I see it as extra money that the school shouldn't have to pay the teacher if they stay in the country. The school agreed to premises 1, 2, and 3 collectively. 4,5,6,7 should be noted in the contract if the employee wants to enforce that kind of outcome. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He's not asking for a second severance, a second air-fare or anything outside of what was already agreed to in the contract. Again, you need to think about what you write a bit more. Your are not making sense. |
Say that to labor board then. I am not the one to convince. If it were within my powers, I'd give you all a million severances. I can't. I can only look at things in a sensible manner.
*_*
Please do that then, please. You are not making any sense what so ever.
1. The school needs a teacher
2. The school pays airfare for the teacher to come
3. The school then pays airfare for the teacher to go home
In the end, the teacher gets ZERO airfare
What you are proposing is:
4. The school needs a teacher
5. The school pays airfare for the teacher to come
6. The teacher stays in the country with school 2
7. The teacher then pockets the airfare home which was intended for line 3
I see it as extra money that the school shouldn't have to pay the teacher if they stay in the country. The school agreed to premises 1, 2, and 3 collectively. 4,5,6,7 should be noted in the contract if the employee wants to enforce that kind of outcome. |
You are speculating that the 2nd school would give him air-fare.
I doubt very much that would happen, since he is already in Korea.
I've never been given air-fare when I was hired in country, were you? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: |
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A few of us are arguing different things here. The way the contracts are written, I don't think the employee is legally entitled to compensation unless he gets a plane ticket home. If the money for a plane ticket were what the contract guaranteed, then the contract should say you're getting a certain amount of cash back, or something to that effect. I can understand the argument where "airfare" could just mean the cost of a plane ticket, given the "fare" part of it, but it's not the way things generally work and it's a bit unreasonable to expect it.
That said, what I am arguing for is that the school should provide a plane ticket home upon completion of the contract if the teacher desires to go home, regardless of plans thereafter. Now, if the teacher is just being spiteful and demanding a plane ticket that will go unused, then I would say the school is morally within its rights to tell said teacher to go to hell, though I'm not sure how it would stand up in court. If, on the other hand, the teacher wants to go home, will use the plane ticket, and has completed their year of employment, they should be entitled to the airfare regardless of whether they plan to spend four days, four months, or four years at home. The contract says what the contract says, whatever personal expectations you might attach to it. It doesn't say "permanently return home", it doesn't say "discontinue employment in Korea", it says it will provide a return ticket home.
As for the labor board, you might have missed the six to ten times it's been mentioned that this is a civil court issue, not a labor board issue.
| some waygug-in wrote: |
You are speculating that the 2nd school would give him air-fare.
I doubt very much that would happen, since he is already in Korea.
I've never been given air-fare when I was hired in country, were you? |
Yeah, one of my coworkers was hired in-country and had about a week and a half between her previous job and starting at my school. Her previous school paid her airfare home, and my school refused to pay her airfare back to Korea, as she was an in-country hire (which seems entirely reasonable). I assumed this was the standard in cases such as this, as it makes a lot more sense.
If we followed Koreatimes' great legal mind, the only people who would ever have their airfare paid both ways by a given school would be one year and done E2s. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| You are speculating that the 2nd school would give him air-fare. |
Why would you sign a contract with the second school and not have them pay for this? The first school should pay for both? Now you aren't making sense. School one pays for one way, and then School two pays the other way. The costs are evenly distributed, and the teacher doesn't get any of that money.
I would never sign a contract with another school where it clearly stated they didn't have to pay airfare home. Every school I have transferred to has agreed to pay airfare costs, and they didn't have to pay for airfare to Korea.
| Quote: |
| I've never been given air-fare when I was hired in country, were you? |
For a flight to Korea, no, and you shouldn't.
For a flight home, no, but you should. The reason for me not getting the airfare home was that I left 4 months into one contract and 6 months into another. I signed 4 contracts total (one became void), and all 5 had return airfare clauses if I completed the year. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| You are speculating that the 2nd school would give him air-fare. |
Why would you sign a contract with the second school and not have them pay for this? The first school should pay for both?
*_*
Because I was hired in country. What about this is not making sense?
School one pays for one way, and then School two pays the other way. The costs are evenly distributed, and the teacher doesn't get any of that money.
I would never sign a contract with another school where it clearly stated they didn't have to pay airfare home.
Every school I have transferred to has agreed to pay airfare costs, and they didn't have to pay for airfare to Korea.
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| I've never been given air-fare when I was hired in country, were you? |
For a flight to Korea, no, and you shouldn't.
For a flight home, no, but you should. The reason for me not getting the airfare home was that I left 4 months into one contract and 6 months into another. I signed 4 contracts total (one became void), and all 5 had return airfare clauses if I completed the year. |
OK, I am starting to understand your reasoning. You feel the 2nd school should pay his air-fare. But that would mean he would have to work another entire year to get this.
I don't think he is planning on staying another year, just a couple of months.
Then (according to you) nobody should pay his air-fare?
Why should he not get anything then? |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| But that would mean he would have to work another entire year to get this. |
He is not going home though. He would be employed with the new school. The option to go home was rejected when the teacher decided not to go home between contracts. Also, the teacher decided not to re-sign with the first school.
If they had re-signed with the first school, then I would expect something from the first school if not a flight home and back (for like 2 weeks), which half would have to be paid back if the teacher did not complete 6 months into the 2nd year.
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| I don't think he is planning on staying another year, just a couple of months. |
If that's true, then he can try to extend the visa with the first school. However, I was under the impression he planned on doing 2 years. Regardless, it's his final say so at the 1 year mark. Re-sign, go home collecting airfare then, leave early into the second contract and not get airfare, or stick it out and do 2 years.
Perhaps if you were planning on quitting early you try to negotiate a higher salary, so some of the costs for a ticket home is paid for by the school. If a ticket is 1,200,000, and you left 2 months into the contract, then that's about 200,000. So if the salary was 2,000,000 you ask for 2,100,000 with the next school and add 100,000. Don't take a second job less than 2,200,000.
You have to pay 1,000,000 out of your earnings of 4,400,000. You come out with 3,200,000 more than if you left home at the end of the first contract.
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| Why should he not get anything then? |
Because he chose not to leave at the end of the contract. He chose to sign a new contract. He decided to stay in the country. If you want to stay in Korea for 2 months, then just switch to a tourist visa, and then re-enter for 90 more days. Another option is to ask the school for the airfare home, and then just re-enter. I wouldn't sign a new contract just to work 2 more months. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| But that would mean he would have to work another entire year to get this. |
He is not going home though. He would be employed with the new school. The option to go home was rejected when the teacher decided not to go home between contracts. Also, the teacher decided not to re-sign with the first school.
Well, if that were spelled out in the contract, then I would agree with you.
But it is not.
If they had re-signed with the first school, then I would expect something from the first school if not a flight home and back (for like 2 weeks), which half would have to be paid back if the teacher did not complete 6 months into the 2nd year.
| Quote: |
| I don't think he is planning on staying another year, just a couple of months. |
If that's true, then he can try to extend the visa with the first school. However, I was under the impression he planned on doing 2 years. Regardless, it's his final say so at the 1 year mark. Re-sign, go home collecting airfare then, leave early into the second contract and not get airfare, or stick it out and do 2 years.
Too late, by the sound of it.
Perhaps if you were planning on quitting early you try to negotiate a higher salary, so some of the costs for a ticket home is paid for by the school. If a ticket is 1,200,000, and you left 2 months into the contract, then that's about 200,000. So if the salary was 2,000,000 you ask for 2,100,000 with the next school and add 100,000. Don't take a second job less than 2,200,000.
You have to pay 1,000,000 out of your earnings of 4,400,000. You come out with 3,200,000 more than if you left home at the end of the first contract.
| Quote: |
| Why should he not get anything then? |
Because he chose not to leave at the end of the contract. He chose to sign a new contract. He decided to stay in the country. If you want to stay in Korea for 2 months, then just switch to a tourist visa, and then re-enter for 90 more days. Another option is to ask the school for the airfare home, and then just re-enter. I wouldn't sign a new contract just to work 2 more months. |
Well, again if that were spelled out in the contract, I would agree with you, but it isn't.
So according to you, if he were to stay at the same school, he would be entitled to a flight home every year, but if he changes schools he isn't?
He would still have to work 2 full years to get the 2 flights. I don't understand how you think this is greedy. It's basically the same thing. |
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