|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
The Chinese appear to be convinced by conversion therapy:
Hong Kong: Sexual Orientation Conversion Advocated by Government
| Quote: |
We are shocked and enraged, that the Hong Kong government invited Dr Kong Kwai Wah, the Chairman of New Creation and an advocate of reparative therapy, to train the staff of the Social Welfare Department in dealing with gay clients.
Reparative therapy has been widely rejected by professionals as unethical, discriminative, unscientific and potentially harmful. The introduction of such �therapy� infringes the professional ethics that objects discrimination. Furthermore, it might have potential harms to clients.
We urge the Hong Kong government to apologize, and cooperate with the LGBT community and professionals, to provide its staffs with diversity training and issue concrete guidelines, to ensure that its service is scientific, professional, ethical and truly responsive to the need of LGBT community. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
|
|
| paynedaniel wrote: |
| Jack Drescher's response to this quote by Yarhouse seems appropriate: "any putative ethical obligation to refer a patient for reparative therapy is outweighed by a stronger ethical obligation to keep patients away from mental health practitioners who engage in questionable clinical practices." |
| About Jones and Yarhouse's similar 2007 study Jack Drescher on p. 90 wrote: |
| The study is a convenience sample of self-referred populations from religious self-help groups. The authors claim to have found a positive effect for some study respondents in different goals such as decreasing same-sex sexual attractions, increasing other-sex attractions, and maintaining celibacy. However, upon close examination, the methodological problems described in Chapter 3 (our critique of recent studies) are characteristic of this work, most notably the absence of a control or comparison group and the threats to internal, external, construct, and statistical validity. Best-practice analytical techniques were not performed in the study, and there are significant deficiencies in the analysis of longitudinal data, use of statistical measures, and choice of assessment measures. The authors� claim of finding change in sexual orientation is unpersuasive due to their study�s methodological problems. |
I also came across these on the current study:
A lengthy critique can be found on exgaywatch:
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/11/a-critique-of-jones-and-yarhouses-ex-gays-part-1/
Box Turtle Bulletin does a great job also analyzing the study:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/tag/jones-yarhouse-study
| Quote: |
This leaves us with at most � at most � 6 individuals who went from gay to straight (as of now, at least; who knows where they�ll be in another 7 years).
6.
And the authors aren�t willing to go even that far. Their single-sentence summary:
In short, the results do not prove that categorical change in sexual orientation is possible for everyone or anyone, but rather that meaningful shifts along a continuum that constitute real changes appear possible for some.
Wow. Out of 98 highly-motivated subjects, the authors found that a small, unspecified number can use prayer and counseling to shut down their sexual feelings or become a bit more bi. And possibly none who turned straight.
Frankly, I�m surprised they couldn�t find more. The authors claim their results:
�challenge the commonly expressed views of the mental health establishment that change of sexual orientation is impossible or very uncommon�
Actually, it looks more like the results confirm those views. If the antigay camp sees this as vindication and victory, they must be even more desperate than I thought. |
And then there is Throckmorton.
Given all the above, I'd say Jones and Yarhouse have been pretty thoroughly rebutted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What happened to the OP? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| catman wrote: |
| What happened to the OP? |
Too many facts to handle, perhaps? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| paynedaniel wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| What happened to the OP? |
Too many facts to handle, perhaps? |
Got bored of his little wind-up. Too easy.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| john152 wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=2943081
What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay . In the US this has already happened in some areas of the country see
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52098,00.html |
Being gay is not choice.
| Quote: |
The fact of the matter is homosexuality is harmful and those who want to change can do so. The National Association for The Research and Therapy of Homosexuality has done a lot of
research into this subject. On their website there is a lot of evidence showing how people can change their sexual preference and the therapy used is not harmful. People can make character attacks
on Narth board members, but they can�t attack their research http://narth.com/ |
You my friend are either a certified troll or a certified nut, it's your pick.
| Quote: |
Narth is a secular group, but there are also religious groups which have had success in helping people overcome unwanted same sex desires. One such group is Exodus International . Many people have been helped by them. Here are some stories of people who have been helped
http://exodusinternational.org/resources/real-stories/#.TqF9RnK9R_J
Wellspring.kr is the Korean version of Exodus.
|
O yes, let's use even more social pressure to an already incredible difficult situation, I am sure the closet is big enough.
| Quote: |
So there is indoctrination in public schools and that is harmful in the long run to the students. This is a well meaning measure by the Education Office and I have great respect the people who work there, but the ordinance is flawed. |
Yeah, it comes from people like yourself. May I suggest you move to a Muslim society and see how you feel as a Christian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Birder
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Yeah, it comes from people like yourself. May I suggest you move to a Muslim society and see how you feel as a Christian. |
Good idea. Because fundamentalist Muslims, like fundamentalist Christians, hate gay people, too, but also engage in lots more gay sex than they'll ever admit to. But, in the fundamentalist Muslim countries, the hypocrites are in the majority, so it's much easier to hide. OP, are you listening? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
john152
Joined: 26 May 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| john152 wrote: |
What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay . |
Encourge?
Face it, you're gay! Anybody who has this perspective is a closet homosexual.
Good to see you come out of the closet (albeit in a really bizzare way). |
Actually I overcame homosexual desires many years ago. My wife and I are happily married. Overcoming same sex desires is not a quick and easy road and somepeople don't make it; Also if somebody does it because they feel pressured into changing then they will revert back.
However I can tell you long term change is absolutely possible. My desires are for my wife (in my mind and dreams too). Through the power + love of Jesus and living a pure life (no more porn, or things like that). I was transformed and my mind was renewed. http://exodusinternational.org/
and http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php for Korean are christian groups that can help with this. I also know there are non-christian groups too.
So now you have my story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| john152 wrote: |
| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| john152 wrote: |
What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay . |
Encourge?
Face it, you're gay! Anybody who has this perspective is a closet homosexual.
Good to see you come out of the closet (albeit in a really bizzare way). |
Actually I overcame homosexual desires many years ago. My wife and I are happily married. Overcoming same sex desires is not a quick and easy road and somepeople don't make it; Also if somebody does it because they feel pressured into changing then they will revert back.
However I can tell you long term change is absolutely possible. My desires are for my wife (in my mind and dreams too). Through the power + love of Jesus and living a pure life (no more porn, or things like that). I was transformed and my mind was renewed. http://exodusinternational.org/
and http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php for Korean are christian groups that can help with this. I also know there are non-christian groups too.
So now you have my story. |
As something of a libertarian, I respect your story because it's yours. Now, I want to ask why you can't respect other people's stories, for instance mine? I was married young (19) to a woman because of family pressure to get married (in order to wish and pray the gay away). The marriage lasted four years, during which time I was involved in Exodus International reparative therapy. These four years culminated in a suicide attempt. Would you recommend I try Exodus International again? Would you recommend already fragile Korean LGBTQ psyches to undergo the Wellspring version? In other words, would you wish depression and possible (nay, likely) suicidal fixation on someone because of who they are physically attracted to? I maintain nearly all negative psychological symptoms of LGBTQ folks has to do with society's repression (whether secular or religious) of them. Relieve the repression, relieve the psychological issues.
And please stop implying NARTH is secular.
Last edited by paynedaniel on Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^ So john152, why do you think then that social science researchers have had such a difficult time documenting cases like yours? It appears that a majority of even those who are motivated to change their orientation are unsuccessful, and thus cases like yours are relatively rare.
Also, I am curioius as to whether previously you had desire for both sexes, or have you gone from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual?
| Quote: |
The study could be confusing sexual identity and sexual orientation, which are distinctly different, said Dr. Jack Drescher, an associate professor of psychiatry at New York Medical College.
Sexual orientation refers to whom a person is attracted to, and in most cases, does not change, he said. But sexual identity is how a person feels about his or her orientation and sexual feelings, Drescher said.
For example, a man may feel strong attraction to males, but he may not self-identify as gay. He could change the way he identifies himself, whether it�s gay or straight throughout his life. But his sexual orientation does not usually change. |
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/04/study-supporting-gay-conversion-challenged/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| john152 wrote: |
| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| john152 wrote: |
What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay . |
Encourge?
Face it, you're gay! Anybody who has this perspective is a closet homosexual.
Good to see you come out of the closet (albeit in a really bizzare way). |
Actually I overcame homosexual desires many years ago. My wife and I are happily married. Overcoming same sex desires is not a quick and easy road and somepeople don't make it; Also if somebody does it because they feel pressured into changing then they will revert back.
However I can tell you long term change is absolutely possible. My desires are for my wife (in my mind and dreams too). Through the power + love of Jesus and living a pure life (no more porn, or things like that). I was transformed and my mind was renewed. http://exodusinternational.org/
and http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php for Korean are christian groups that can help with this. I also know there are non-christian groups too.
So now you have my story. |
And just so people know there's an affirming Christian option in Korea: http://krcf.weebly.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Gay rights for students in Seoul proposed |
|
|
| john152 wrote: |
| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| john152 wrote: |
What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay . |
Encourge?
Face it, you're gay! Anybody who has this perspective is a closet homosexual.
Good to see you come out of the closet (albeit in a really bizzare way). |
Actually I overcame homosexual desires many years ago. My wife and I are happily married. Overcoming same sex desires is not a quick and easy road and somepeople don't make it; Also if somebody does it because they feel pressured into changing then they will revert back.
However I can tell you long term change is absolutely possible. My desires are for my wife (in my mind and dreams too). Through the power + love of Jesus and living a pure life (no more porn, or things like that). I was transformed and my mind was renewed. http://exodusinternational.org/
and http://wellspring.kr/200705/index.php for Korean are christian groups that can help with this. I also know there are non-christian groups too.
So now you have my story. |
So, here we have a guy claiming to have 'overcome' his homosexual desires...married and all 
and yet says this...
'What bothers me about this ordinance is it could lead some schools to encourage students to be Gay .'
...even worse though...the whole religious nonsense is seriously more twisted than the original post.
I think thou doth protest too much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
john152
Joined: 26 May 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
We could debate for weeks on the merits of the studies and http://narth.com/ does have a lot of studies and counter arguments to attacks on their studies when you look through their website. Ultimately, it comes down to making a decision for yourself.
If you are happy being gay then by all means don�t try to change. However if deep down you don�t want to be gay then know long term change is possible. Read some of the stories from many people with different backgrounds http://exodusinternational.org/resources/real-stories/
Then reflect on them pray about it, and make your own decision.
My life since taking this road has had challenges, attacks on me, and difficulties, but it has made me stronger. I am glad I took the journey, now there is a peace I have never had before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| john152 wrote: |
| I am glad I took the journey, now there is a peace I have never had before. |
...yes...the kind of peace that has you starting threads basically condemning the urges you are so obviously repressing.
If you really think you have found peace...then let it be.
No need to start threads and try to make others feel shame for living a more honest life than you have chosen for yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
^ Cosmic, your tone is unnecessary. The OP made it clear from the start that this was a possibilty for anyone who might be looking for such a thing regardless of what you or I think about it. I never got where he was trying to make anyone else feel shame. He provided information that someone else may be looking for. He even said:
| Quote: |
| If you are happy being gay then by all means don�t try to change. |
We may not even be convinced that he has in fact changed his orientation, but it is up to him to define his happiness for himself, and he has a right to post about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
