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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
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| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
And that is just ONE province in Canada, not Canada overall.
In America it's even worse.
http://www.safesystemclassroom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Bullied-Teachers_-145100-Public-School-Teachers-Physically-Attacked-by-Stud.pdf
From a sample of 46000 teachers they estimated that around 145100 teachers nationwide were physically attacked every year. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
| Quote: |
| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
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To be fair, what's the definition of 'attacked'? They probably include verbal abuse, vandalism, and harassment in with that. This is not to say that it's excusable. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Has the video of the incident been released yet? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
| Quote: |
| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
And that is just ONE province in Canada, not Canada overall.
In America it's even worse.
http://www.safesystemclassroom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Bullied-Teachers_-145100-Public-School-Teachers-Physically-Attacked-by-Stud.pdf
From a sample of 46000 teachers they estimated that around 145100 teachers nationwide were physically attacked every year. |
Reading stuff like this is why I'm wising up and learning martial arts. Any student attacks me ain't gonna like where they end up. Teachers can't get in sh!t as long as it's self defence. That goes for bad parents who threaten teachers too. Anyone entering the teaching profesion in the west needs martial arts training too. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
| Quote: |
| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
And that is just ONE province in Canada, not Canada overall.
In America it's even worse.
http://www.safesystemclassroom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Bullied-Teachers_-145100-Public-School-Teachers-Physically-Attacked-by-Stud.pdf
From a sample of 46000 teachers they estimated that around 145100 teachers nationwide were physically attacked every year. |
Reading stuff like this is why I'm wising up and learning martial arts. Any student attacks me ain't gonna like where they end up. Teachers can't get in sh!t as long as it's self defence. That goes for bad parents who threaten teachers too. Anyone entering the teaching profesion in the west needs martial arts training too. |
My initial reaction is to think this extreme and paranoid and too testosterone filled
I want to criticize this and say it would be better learning how to build a good environment and how to reach out and learning how to avoid such conflicts in the first place and blah blah blah
But then I don't know...something tells me you might kinda have a point. Good grief, it is crazy out there sometimes. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
| Quote: |
| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
And that is just ONE province in Canada, not Canada overall.
In America it's even worse.
http://www.safesystemclassroom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Bullied-Teachers_-145100-Public-School-Teachers-Physically-Attacked-by-Stud.pdf
From a sample of 46000 teachers they estimated that around 145100 teachers nationwide were physically attacked every year. |
Reading stuff like this is why I'm wising up and learning martial arts. Any student attacks me ain't gonna like where they end up. Teachers can't get in sh!t as long as it's self defence. That goes for bad parents who threaten teachers too. Anyone entering the teaching profesion in the west needs martial arts training too. |
My initial reaction is to think this extreme and paranoid and too testosterone filled
I want to criticize this and say it would be better learning how to build a good environment and how to reach out and learning how to avoid such conflicts in the first place and blah blah blah
But then I don't know...something tells me you might kinda have a point. Good grief, it is crazy out there sometimes. |
Sometimes you can't prevent the unpreventable. Sometimes the ignorant mind won't learn. Imagine dealing with certain types of people who will not be intervened with. These are rare and most extreme cases but there are definately a few crazies out there. I would think you would use your training less than 0.0001 % of the time. But when you need it, it's there. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Oh lord here comes UM again with random "facts" trying to excuse inexcusable behaviour simply because the perpetrator was Korean. Nothing like reverse cultural bias to lighten the mood.
Sure, some Canadian kids have assaulted a teacher, maybe the same amount as in Korea. The difference is that in Canada those kids are expelled, charged and taken away. In Korea, the teacher is the one blamed and the student gets to stay. Moreover, many of these incidents simply aren't reported in Korea. For example a kid in one of my classes freaked out today when he lost a game, started to throw his belongings at me, attack another student violently and flip his chair. This would result with his parents in the Principal's office, detention and possible suspension in most Western classrooms. Here I was told I am too strict because I stopped him from punching another student and had him stand in the back for the remainder of the class. In Canada, I would have reported the assault (he punched and kicked me), here I'm worried his mother might call and complain (again). So comparing stats from one country to another is meaningless. It's like trusting the Soviet's economic reports in 1982.
But I'll wait for more 'facts' about how utopian Korea is and how hellish the West is, sprinkled with personal insults all while ignoring the actual issue at hand, as per usual..... |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's my impression that western schools tend to get the parents of problem kids involved a lot more with phone calls, reports, meetings.......
The western teachers might be doing this to try to get the parents on their side and present a united front to the misbehaving kid, or they may just be contacting the parents to get an idea if the kid's homelife is maybe the reason why he/she is the way they are!!
But I've been told by Korean teachers on a few occasions that Korean schools hate having to contact parents about misbehaviour because in Korean school culture it gives the impression that the school has failed in some way to handle the situation.
So I think there is an objective difference in attitude and method between Korea and the west here........and I don't think the Korean approach is the better one. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
So I think there is an objective difference in attitude and method between Korea and the west here........and I don't think the Korean approach is the better one. |
+1 |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones.
Especially given Korean society. One could see this as an American story because of how our culture is but not in Korea. |
http://www.teachersatrisk.com/2007/05/07/some-students-bully-teachers-too/
| Quote: |
| The Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation reports that seven percent of its members have been attacked by students. |
| Quote: |
The report of July 2005 noted that
36% percent of teachers have been bullied by students. |
And that is just ONE province in Canada, not Canada overall.
In America it's even worse.
http://www.safesystemclassroom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Bullied-Teachers_-145100-Public-School-Teachers-Physically-Attacked-by-Stud.pdf
From a sample of 46000 teachers they estimated that around 145100 teachers nationwide were physically attacked every year. |
Reading stuff like this is why I'm wising up and learning martial arts. Any student attacks me ain't gonna like where they end up. Teachers can't get in sh!t as long as it's self defence. That goes for bad parents who threaten teachers too. Anyone entering the teaching profesion in the west needs martial arts training too. |
My initial reaction is to think this extreme and paranoid and too testosterone filled
I want to criticize this and say it would be better learning how to build a good environment and how to reach out and learning how to avoid such conflicts in the first place and blah blah blah
But then I don't know...something tells me you might kinda have a point. Good grief, it is crazy out there sometimes. |
Sometimes you can't prevent the unpreventable. Sometimes the ignorant mind won't learn. Imagine dealing with certain types of people who will not be intervened with. These are rare and most extreme cases but there are definately a few crazies out there. I would think you would use your training less than 0.0001 % of the time. But when you need it, it's there. |
Agree with both of you. It sounds strange to even have to consider force in the classroom, but it depends on the students. The first line of defense is prevention, and the second is a harsh attitude, but some students want to test limits anyway. Another thing about some moderate training is that you'll have extra confidence (justified or not) and thus will be less likely to be cowed in the first place. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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To what degree do you guys think it's reasonable for us to defend ourselves if a student attacks us? I've always assumed I can only restrain them in the worst scenario, but maybe it would be okay to throw a jab to the body if it gets really out of hand? I haven't really thought about it. I have no idea what I'd do if a girl threw a punch or slap
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| does no one else think that insulting a student--no matter the circumstances--is incredibly inappropriate? |
No
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| The student in the story should be required to submit a CBC each year if she wants to be in a classroom. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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This is an interesting turn of events. We went from daily beatings for the smallest infractions to students having their way with teachers.
| Squire wrote: |
I've always assumed I can only restrain them in the worst scenario, but maybe it would be okay to throw a jab to the body if it gets really out of hand? I haven't really thought about it. I have no idea what I'd do if a girl threw a punch or slap
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That's kind of funny. I can just imagine future thread titles being, "My student is feinting the right hand to go to the body. How can I counter it?" |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
This is an interesting turn of events. We went from daily beatings for the smallest infractions to students having their way with teachers.
| Squire wrote: |
I've always assumed I can only restrain them in the worst scenario, but maybe it would be okay to throw a jab to the body if it gets really out of hand? I haven't really thought about it. I have no idea what I'd do if a girl threw a punch or slap
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That's kind of funny. I can just imagine future thread titles being, "My student is feinting the right hand to go to the body. How can I counter it?" |
To be fair a student throwing a feint probably isn't grounds to start letting your hands go |
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fortysixyou
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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A few months ago as I was walking into the classroom, a 4th grade elementary boy threw an eraser at my the back of my head. It hurt. I looked at my co-teacher, who did nothing, and wondered what to do. I was furious. I almost hit him.
I went to his desk, ripped him out of the chair, dragged him into the hall and yelled at him, in Korean. He went back into the classroom, and I went for some water, then taught the class.
What would you have done ? |
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