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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| fortysixyou wrote: |
A few months ago as I was walking into the classroom, a 4th grade elementary boy threw an eraser at my the back of my head. It hurt. I looked at my co-teacher, who did nothing, and wondered what to do. I was furious. I almost hit him.
I went to his desk, ripped him out of the chair, dragged him into the hall and yelled at him, in Korean. He went back into the classroom, and I went for some water, then taught the class.
What would you have done ? |
I don't know. Having a co teacher around who isn't prepared to deal with students must be a bad situation. I've got a decent CT who keeps order but a friend here isn't so lucky. I'd be having words with your CT if I were you |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fortysixyou wrote: |
A few months ago as I was walking into the classroom, a 4th grade elementary boy threw an eraser at my the back of my head. It hurt. I looked at my co-teacher, who did nothing, and wondered what to do. I was furious. I almost hit him.
I went to his desk, ripped him out of the chair, dragged him into the hall and yelled at him, in Korean. He went back into the classroom, and I went for some water, then taught the class.
What would you have done ? |
Sounds like you did a very appropriate thing.
Did you make sure he was crying? That'd be a good example
for any other hoodlums thinking about acting up. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Oh lord here comes UM again with random "facts" trying to excuse inexcusable behaviour simply because the perpetrator was Korean. Nothing like reverse cultural bias to lighten the mood.
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And here is Mr. BlackCat twisting words again. No one is excusing anything. It was claimed that this does not happen in America and I merely pointed out it does. Nothing more and nothing less.
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sirius black wrote:
Not excusing making fun of a kid but on what planet does being made fun of by a teacher justify fighting said teacher? Teachers, coaches, etc. have said inappropriate things to students and student athletes for eons. How many in America result in fights? Students complain to the principal or their parents but they don't fight the teacher.
Students simply don't think about fighting teachers. Not your average one or even the slightly crazy ones. |
THIS is what I was responding to. The claim that this doesn't happen in America. THIS AND ONLY THIS. I threw in Canada as well to show that I wasn't American bashing.
And yes these are documented facts. Putting the word "facts" in quotes doesn't change that. Also would you like to show me where I mentioned Korea or compared its stats to those of the West? You can't because you made a COMPLETELY wrong assumption and went on charging ahead right down the wrong path.
And let me say here for the record student-teacher violence is WRONG. Whether in Korea or Canada or America. Is that clear enough for you? No matter what nationality the perpetrator is (Canadian or American or KOREAN).
So is teacher-student violence ...but that's another thread. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| To what degree do you guys think it's reasonable for us to defend ourselves if a student attacks us? I've always assumed I can only restrain them in the worst scenario, but maybe it would be okay to throw a jab to the body if it gets really out of hand? |
"Okay" for whom? Yeah sure, jabs would be okay, but hooks and uppercuts are strictly illegal. 
Ok, in all seriousness, not a good idea. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| To what degree do you guys think it's reasonable for us to defend ourselves if a student attacks us? I've always assumed I can only restrain them in the worst scenario, but maybe it would be okay to throw a jab to the body if it gets really out of hand? |
"Okay" for whom? Yeah sure, jabs would be okay, but hooks and uppercuts are strictly illegal.
Ok, in all seriousness, not a good idea. |
What if two kids are attacking you? You can't restrain two people at once |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Oh lord here comes UM again with random "facts" trying to excuse inexcusable behaviour simply because the perpetrator was Korean. Nothing like reverse cultural bias to lighten the mood. |
You seem to have this bizarre reading comprehension issue where you keep taking statements out of context so that you can complain about them. To everyone else who was paying attention, urban myth was responding to another post and not posting random facts. As an English teacher, you should look into getting that fixed. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Seriously back home there were a few times where our school cafeteria more resembled a prison one- gang brawls, segregated by choice seating, nervous looking staff whose training was to save themselves and bring in the police(ala SRTs) and let them sort it out. This was in High School.
These days sitting in the cafeteria at my Korean school and watching elementary kids almost start brawls and where apparently the popular kids try to get cafeteria duty so they can give more food to the other popular kids and less food to their enemies (sounds like prison again) really makes me wonder how long it is before some sort of mini-riot erupts.
My policy with kids acting up is to act first. Waiting ends up with situations like someone getting their head punched into the trophy case and then having serious injuries from glass shards. If the parents or administration complain, fine. I'll say I'm sorry and in the next situation do it again.
Now for all those who are saying "why aren't they harsher here?", which in some cases they should be. I should point out the desire is rehabilitation, rather then punishment. Sometimes this works. Sometimes it fails. Think about it- expelling a kid or giving them a formal rap sheet or holding them back a year is a serious measure. Kinda like sending someone to prison. What happens with that? The same thing that happens in prison. The person adopts the view that they are bad and that they are going to be on the fringes of society and live by a "bad boy/girl" code. And just like a felony conviction is a hindrance to finding a job and getting one's life back on track. So too are records involving the police or expulsion or being held back a year. It can be an academic anchor for what may have been a momentary bout of immaturity.
Now does that mean police/expulsion/being held back should never be used? Of course not. But let's pause and think about things. I think most of us here are against the "Prison State" mentality and support tag lines like "Rehabilitation, not Incarceration" or "Treatment, not Prison". As educators we must remember that and keep our cool when it comes to kids, juveniles, acting up.
At the same time, the little brats need a paddlin or three.
| Quote: |
A few months ago as I was walking into the classroom, a 4th grade elementary boy threw an eraser at my the back of my head. It hurt. I looked at my co-teacher, who did nothing, and wondered what to do. I was furious. I almost hit him.
I went to his desk, ripped him out of the chair, dragged him into the hall and yelled at him, in Korean. He went back into the classroom, and I went for some water, then taught the class.
What would you have done ? |
Depends on my relationship with the student. If he's one I have a good relationship I'd write it off as him thinking of us too much as "friends" and just have the teacher talk to him, not even get really angry. Give em the whole "Hey in the hallway or on the playground we can joke a little, but in the classroom..." bit.
Now if it was one of the kids that has a tendency to act like a punk and was doing it to get a laugh I might give em the whole "walk the line". Take two lines of his friends (throw in some hot-tempered students who weren't involved or the alphas in the class or the resident psycho) who were all laughing at it- have them face each other holding up their chairs. Have the kid who threw it walk slowly up and down between the two lines. Take as long as is necessary. Don't worry, the mixed reactions you'll have at first will give way eventually to the other students getting violently angry at the kid. At which point the kid will probably burst into tears. Drag them by the arm as they flail pathetically on the ground for a few more trips up and down the line. Then let them go and have the other kids give chase. I don't know what will happen after that and I don't care.
Have had three straight years of relatively good order after that one. Apparently that incident was a big one for the students. Everyone heard about it. Kids talk. They know what teachers they can mess with and which ones they can't. Kid never acted up again. Apparently he was so scared he went to his homeroom teacher and confessed what he did because that was the safer option. And the understanding that there was a place that I as a teacher was capable of and that anyone who crossed the line would visit that place was made. Sure kids would act up, but everyone knew that a blatant challenge and disrespect would end BADLY for them. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| ends on my relationship with the student. If he's one I have a good relationship I'd write it off as him thinking of us too much as "friends" and just have the teacher talk to him, not even get really angry. Give em the whole "Hey in the hallway or on the playground we can joke a little, but in the classroom..." |
What if some 14 yr old emo kid threw his lipstick at you back in the 'BIG D' whilst you were in the classroom? |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| The difference is that in Canada those kids are expelled, charged and taken away. In Korea, the teacher is the one blamed and the student gets to stay. Moreover, many of these incidents simply aren't reported in Korea. For example a kid in one of my classes freaked out today when he lost a game, started to throw his belongings at me, attack another student violently and flip his chair. This would result with his parents in the Principal's office, detention and possible suspension in most Western classrooms. Here I was told I am too strict ..... |
Thats exactly what usually happens in hogwons. I'm not sure what a student would have to do to actually get expelled.
Its a little different in public schools. They don't make excuses for bad behaviour, although they are increasingly limited in what they can do to manage it. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
What if two kids are attacking you? You can't restrain two people at once |
Overhand right on the first one. Double leg the other and lock on a kimura until he promises to behave. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| the mixed reactions you'll have at first will give way eventually to the other students getting violently angry at the kid. At which point the kid will probably burst into tears. |
Divide and conquer is a good basic measure, however this won't work if the student concerned happens to be the class leader/ alpha. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ends on my relationship with the student. If he's one I have a good relationship I'd write it off as him thinking of us too much as "friends" and just have the teacher talk to him, not even get really angry. Give em the whole "Hey in the hallway or on the playground we can joke a little, but in the classroom..." |
What if some 14 yr old emo kid threw his lipstick at you back in the 'BIG D' whilst you were in the classroom? |
Hint: In the D, it ain't the Eamo kids.....
If I knew them we can work things out. If I don't, well then whip that back at them. Then tell laugh at them for throwing lipstick. Step up and throw something real if you're going to throw something.
Throw some lipstick? Please. Seriously. THROW SOME LIPSTICK? Oh no, I'm quaking in my boots now. My first year I had some kids act up and throw some silly stuff at my. Just laugh at that. Throw an eraser at me? Throw that eraser at a target right behind em and whip it hard. Make the point that you can whip that. Don't even have to hit em just laugh and fling it. They know.
Seriously? Eamo kids? Seriously? Talking about how hard things are in the D? The D? And throwing out eamo kids? You're joking right? You think eamo kids are the problem in the D? Eamo kids? Laugh and a half with that...
| Quote: |
| Divide and conquer is a good basic measure, however this won't work if the student concerned happens to be the class leader/ alpha. |
Take out the alpha and make em the class leader. I don't care who you are, I'm the alpha in that class. I'm no alpha. But in that class, there is no way that any of them are going to claim that.
Last edited by Steelrails on Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Why do emo's seem to upset you so much steel?
They juss wawnt lurve. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ends on my relationship with the student. If he's one I have a good relationship I'd write it off as him thinking of us too much as "friends" and just have the teacher talk to him, not even get really angry. Give em the whole "Hey in the hallway or on the playground we can joke a little, but in the classroom..." |
What if some 14 yr old emo kid threw his lipstick at you back in the 'BIG D' whilst you were in the classroom? |
Hint: In the D, it ain't the Eamo kids.....
If I knew them we can work things out. If I don't, well then whip that back at them. Then tell laugh at them for throwing lipstick. Step up and throw something real if you're going to throw something.
Throw some lipstick? Please. Seriously. THROW SOME LIPSTICK? Oh no, I'm quaking in my boots now. My first year I had some kids act up and throw some silly stuff at my. Just laugh at that. Throw an eraser at me? Throw that eraser at a target right behind em and whip it hard. Make the point that you can whip that. Don't even have to hit em just laugh and fling it. They know.
Seriously? Eamo kids? Seriously? Talking about how hard things are in the D? The D? And throwing out eamo kids? You're joking right? You think eamo kids are the problem in the D? Eamo kids? Laugh and a half with that...
| Quote: |
| Divide and conquer is a good basic measure, however this won't work if the student concerned happens to be the class leader/ alpha. |
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Yah! It's not 'eamo'!! it's 'emo!!
I'm eamo! The kids who wear black clothes and mope around listening to awful music are emo. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
Why do emo's seem to upset you so much steel?
They juss wawnt lurve. |
I could care less about emos.
But to suggest that in the D its emo kids one has to watch out for...That's like saying "if you into Gaza, watch out for the Hell's Angels."
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Yah! It's not 'eamo'!! it's 'emo!!
I'm eamo! The kids who wear black clothes and mope around listening to awful music are emo. |
Epic fail by me. |
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