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duke of new york
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| This discussion got me kind of interested in the topic, because I'm a nerd, and I found this page on Wikipedia, which explains the concept of ellipsis pretty well. Basically, it says that "ellipsis" can refer to a whole hell of a lot of different types of things, all involving some kind of omission, so it's no surprise that there is some confusion among any of us. Take a look if you're interested. |
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Birder
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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"I don't want to see you, speak to you or even hear of your existence."
In this sentence, the second and third "to" before "speak" and "hear" have been eliided. That act is called an ellipsis. It is best performed when the word being ellided is exactly the same word. So, to address the OP's original question, the sentence is fine in informal speech, but doesn't really work, because "much" and "many" are not the same word, and can't be because of the count/nonount issue of food and snacks. (Yes, sometimes food can be countable, but not really here.) "I don't drink much beer or wine." "I object to many laws and regulations."
We see this mistake in things like, "I have never nor ever will be interested in playing golf." It should be, "I have never been nor ever will be interested in golf." "Been" and "be" are incarnations of the verb "to be," but they are not the same word. Here, the mistake is elliding the first instance of the verb. It doesn't work. It's false ellipsis. It's common enough, but it's still not right, most especially in written English. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Birder wrote: |
"I don't want to see you, speak to you or even hear of your existence."
In this sentence, the second and third "to" before "speak" and "hear" have been eliided. That act is called an ellipsis. It is best performed when the word being ellided is exactly the same word. So, to address the OP's original question, the sentence is fine in informal speech, but doesn't really work, because "much" and "many" are not the same word, and can't be because of the count/nonount issue of food and snacks. (Yes, sometimes food can be countable, but not really here.) "I don't drink much beer or wine." "I object to many laws and regulations."
We see this mistake in things like, "I have never nor ever will be interested in playing golf." It should be, "I have never been nor ever will be interested in golf." "Been" and "be" are incarnations of the verb "to be," but they are not the same word. Here, the mistake is elliding the first instance of the verb. It doesn't work. It's false ellipsis. It's common enough, but it's still not right, most especially in written English. |
nice post...love the creative spelling. 
I love using ellipsis...never write a post without it.
Elision is the act of omitting sounds from words.
Elided sounds can easily be understood by native speakers.
As for ellipsis...the act of leaving out words...to ellipt words is fun.
But 'to ellipt' is a bit awkward so many have tried...ellipsing, ellipsed, ellipting, ellipted ...the spelling is endless.
I like to use the word ellipted.
I've used the word ellipted many times in the past and will probably use it again in the future.
(see...I ellipted - 'I' from the second clause to reduce the compound structure into a simple sentence)
It's a damned poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
Andrew Jackson |
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duke of new york
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Grammar wars up in here. |
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JeffersonDarcy2010
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL @ koreatimes |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know why the LOL, I honestly didn't know about ellipsis as it pertains to only 1 word omissions. I have usually seen individual word omissions and associated them with count-non count analysis.
This is new to me. If you already know about it, great. I didn't. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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JeffersonDarcy2010 wrote:
It must be nice to know everything. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
I don't know why the LOL, I honestly didn't know about ellipsis as it pertains to only 1 word omissions. I have usually seen individual word omissions and associated them with count-non count analysis.
This is new to me. If you already know about it, great. I didn't. |
Hey KT,
Ellipsis is really quite common, though most people don't realize that they are using it...perhaps it is only the terminology that you were unaware of.
It isn't just single words either...entire phrases can be ellipted.
It can occur at the beginning, middle, and end of sentences.
Here is a common one for initial and terminal ellipsis.
Do you understand the question?
You understand the question?
Understand the question?
Do you understand.
Do you?
Understand?
Again, most people use ellipsis on a regular basis, but quite understandably they may be unaware of the terminology with regards to the specifics of it.
The same can be said for phrasal verbs...wicked common but seldom discussed.
Hope this is useful. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It isn't just single words either...entire phrases can be ellipted. |
Yes, that is what I thought it meant, not just one word. I thought before in order to be an ellipsis we had to see the "..."
Apparently not. |
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Birder
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
nice post...love the creative spelling.
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Damn it! My worst failing is proof-reading my own rambles. Still, good to know you caught the gist of this one.
And also, Damn it, I wasn't quite aware of the difference between elided and ellipsed. So, it wasn't a spelling dysfunction at all, but a matter of my own ignorance. Damn it!
Still, isn't there some common root for both concepts? Isn't there something missing in both cases? And if "yes" to this question, why does one have a double-l but the other not? Or is this one of those questions to which the answer is, "English is crazy"? Do they indeed have different roots? |
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