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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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You could be right.
Some people just have this thing about other people being deceptive when selling a point of view.
When it gets to adding the religious solution...whooo boy...welcome to crazy town. |
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paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Cosmic, your tone is unnecessary. The OP made it clear from the start that this was a possibilty for anyone who might be looking for such a thing regardless of what you or I think about it. I never got where he was trying to make anyone else feel shame. He provided information that someone else may be looking for. He even said:
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| If you are happy being gay then by all means don�t try to change. |
We may not even be convinced that he has in fact changed his orientation, but it is up to him to define his happiness for himself, and he has a right to post about it. |
Agreed, even though I am saddened by the social factors that made the OP feel he needed change in the first place. |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| paynedaniel wrote: |
| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Cosmic, your tone is unnecessary. The OP made it clear from the start that this was a possibilty for anyone who might be looking for such a thing regardless of what you or I think about it. I never got where he was trying to make anyone else feel shame. He provided information that someone else may be looking for. He even said:
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| If you are happy being gay then by all means don�t try to change. |
We may not even be convinced that he has in fact changed his orientation, but it is up to him to define his happiness for himself, and he has a right to post about it. |
Agreed, even though I am saddened by the social factors that made the OP feel he needed change in the first place. |
I don't know. Some people feel they need to change their hair color or phenotypic sex. Is this much better or worse? And how do you know that social factors were the cause? That is not the case with transgenders. |
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paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
| paynedaniel wrote: |
| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Cosmic, your tone is unnecessary. The OP made it clear from the start that this was a possibilty for anyone who might be looking for such a thing regardless of what you or I think about it. I never got where he was trying to make anyone else feel shame. He provided information that someone else may be looking for. He even said:
| Quote: |
| If you are happy being gay then by all means don�t try to change. |
We may not even be convinced that he has in fact changed his orientation, but it is up to him to define his happiness for himself, and he has a right to post about it. |
Agreed, even though I am saddened by the social factors that made the OP feel he needed change in the first place. |
I don't know. Some people feel they need to change their hair color or phenotypic sex. Is this much better or worse? And how do you know that social factors were the cause? That is not the case with transgenders. |
I am making what I think is a fairly safe assumption of social factors involved due to the presence of the religious undertones in the OP's posts. Perhaps I'm wrong. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
I have similar misgivings about the intentions of this thread...time will tell. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
Might be political. Definitely religious. |
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Birder
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
I have similar misgivings about the intentions of this thread...time will tell. |
Ego-syntonic. Ego-dystonic. No doubt the success rate of gays who are not comfortable with their sexuality and who try to change their need for same-sex satisfaction (sexual and emotional) is higher than among those who are not horrified by their natural inclincations.
The existence of Ex-ex-gays, however, casts much doubt on the efficacy of such "therapies." Let's do some long-term studies of these "repaired" gays before we light the candles on that cake, huh?
The only difference between homosexual activity among Humans and virtually every other species on the planet is that Humans are the only species that has found it necessary to attach shame to it. |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
I have similar misgivings about the intentions of this thread...time will tell. |
Both of you may well be correct. I just like to give people a large benefit of a doubt until they actually prove otherwise.
| Birder wrote: |
| The only difference between homosexual activity among Humans and virtually every other species on the planet is that Humans are the only species that has found it necessary to attach shame to it. |
A bit disingenuous, no? Humans are the only species with shame, period. |
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paynedaniel
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not so convinced of the good intentions of the OP. He brings up a proposition in a bill that would try to stop discrimination of gays. He thinks this will encourage homosexuality. It sounds to me like he's justifying discrimination of gays. He then brings up changing his sexual orientation. What does this have to do with the proposal in Korean schools? Is he using this to justify discrimination against gays because they could change their orientation if they really wanted to ? I see something political in all this. |
I have similar misgivings about the intentions of this thread...time will tell. |
Both of you may well be correct. I just like to give people a large benefit of a doubt until they actually prove otherwise.
| Birder wrote: |
| The only difference between homosexual activity among Humans and virtually every other species on the planet is that Humans are the only species that has found it necessary to attach shame to it. |
A bit disingenuous, no? Humans are the only species with shame, period. |
I agree that humans are the only animals to have developed a highly tuned capacity for shame, but the following article is interesting in regards to precursors for guilt and shame in the animal world:
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-666656/Evolution-social-roles-and-the.html
I think it's important to distinguish between guilt and shame. Guilt is mostly outward oriented, as in feeling that one has wronged another in some way, whereas shame is mostly inward oriented, as in feeling one has not lived up to expectations. Whether the OP acted out of shame is not my place to say, though of all the ex-ex-gays I know, shame was instrumental in their attempt at change. |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I suck. Finals, a vacation, and three very not-very-fun classes in a new semester just pushed this debate right out of my mind. Seeing this story snapped it right back.
If anyone involved wants to start back up again, I'm game. Otherwise, I've more than earned a forced concession.  |
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roguefishfood
Joined: 21 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Posting in a troll thread. |
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