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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
| What exactly are you interested in? |
Oh, perhaps percentages instead of the nebulous term "loads of." And perhaps a clear and concise explanation of why you are anti-military instead of simply tossing out that term as though it's all that meaningful. |
Thank you for clarifying.
Most Koreans I've spoken with over the past 18 months or so, have stated that they would like to see a withdrawal.
I thought of you today and wanted to give you a better answer. I took a survey, ya see. I have great relationships with several of my coworkers.
Point Blank Question (to 16 teachers): Do you think the U.S. military should start withdrawing? 13 said yes. That's over 75%, right? I guess I've heard that from a total of 40 or so in my time here. 'Loads'? Eh, my choice of wording. I'll bet we could start an online poll.
What's the name of that site? Sentry? Have them start one. Betcha it'd be LOADS.
I don't like most military endeavors around the world.
Do I reap the benefits of said military? Sometimes.
But, I would be successful anywhere...so, no matter.
Do I understand geo politics, foreign policy and military tactics more
than most people? Yes. I was a young, impressionable
soldier in my earlier days.
So, I am anti-military. Any more?
I'd go into failed operations, atrocities and the like....
That would be a whole other thread. |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
Loads of Koreans want the military to depart.
Many are aware of the advantages of having had the military
here.
Still want your nice cars, apartments, cell phones, smart pads, communications in general, shopping trips, surgeries and many
of the other luxuries that Koreans have become so comfortable
owning? How many Koreans would be willing to give these up?
Rarely any. Captain Consumption has you hooked. You think
good ol' Korean innovation and hard work are the reasons that
most people have these comforts?
. |
Yes, it is. The military didn't come in and hand out all these "luxuries". Koreans had to work for them. And before you start spouting off about the U.S giving money to them remember that the U.S has given more money to other countries that are still far less developed than South Korea. So the money is obviously only a small part of it.
Why make posts if they only make you look uninformed? We've already got plenty of those around here. |
Myth. Think you do some good for this board helping out new folks and such. Cheers to that.
But, I am far from uninformed. I may make broad statements at times before being asked to elaborate, but that is a far cry from not knowing anything about foreign policy towards our korean friends over the past few decades.
Would SK have the 'things' they do without U.S. intervention way back when? You already know the answer to that. Has the continued presence of U.S. military here been propelling the 'success' of SK?
You already know the answer to that. Has the U.S. thrown kabillions of dollars into SK over the years? Subsidizing exports up to 70% for many years turned the backwater country into an Asian powerhouse overnight.
Nobody could compete. Compared to aid in many other countries, there has never been the type of military support and cooperation that exists here.
On top of all the monetary assistance...we'll call it 'aid'...the PRESENCE of security has made them very dependent on 'big brother'. Instead of worrying about security, they have been able to move into higher leveled stages of economic development, again and again. Look at the education and manufacturing of tech advances. Here's a ladder. Just climb it.
I could give LOADS more examples if you like.
Hard work has helped SK become successful, as it would only benefit any emerging economy. I'm saying that the 'success' of SK would not be anywhere near it's current level had it not been for the presence of the U.S. military. Doesn't that make sense? Success takes hard work. But, when you have someone giving you all the answers, you move a lot faster.
As for the military being here....well, the rulers of the world know why they're here. They won't be leaving any time soon.
I'm tired. Daves is exhausting. Taking a break. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Stout I really do not understand what you are on about but really. You mention an old movie something about U.S. aggression and the topic is the U.S. troop deployment in South Korea. Koreans vote for people and parties that are in favor of keeping the U.S troops in South Korea. Many Koreans have served with the U.S army in Katusa. many Koreans work for the department of defense. Except for the incident of the accident which took the lives of two little girls, have there been any large demonstrations demanding that the U.S. troops leave? It seems pretty obvious that most Koreans see the U.s. forces here as a positive thing. I can remember the panic of many when the norks were building their nuclear device and it looked like a war might start any second. No complaints about the troops at that time. I remember two Canadian teachers approaching g.I.'s and asking if the U.S. would evacuate Canadians. It comes and it goes. Sometimes the hate is at the troops sometimes it is directed at the English teachers. A little shooting at the DMZ and everyone will love the g.i.s. Some hakwon jockey will get drunk do something stupid and another witch hunt will start. REmember there would be no South Korea if it were not for the U.S. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Stout I really do not understand what you are on about but really. You mention an old movie something about U.S. aggression and the topic is the U.S. troop deployment in South Korea. Koreans vote for people and parties that are in favor of keeping the U.S troops in South Korea. Many Koreans have served with the U.S army in Katusa. many Koreans work for the department of defense. Except for the incident of the accident which took the lives of two little girls, have there been any large demonstrations demanding that the U.S. troops leave? It seems pretty obvious that most Koreans see the U.s. forces here as a positive thing. I can remember the panic of many when the norks were building their nuclear device and it looked like a war might start any second. No complaints about the troops at that time. I remember two Canadian teachers approaching g.I.'s and asking if the U.S. would evacuate Canadians. It comes and it goes. Sometimes the hate is at the troops sometimes it is directed at the English teachers. A little shooting at the DMZ and everyone will love the g.i.s. Some hakwon jockey will get drunk do something stupid and another witch hunt will start. REmember there would be no South Korea if it were not for the U.S. |
I was really just answering to your assertion that China is on the verge of supporting a invasion by the North. Iraq and Afghanistan may seem like old movies to you, but they are far more current than anything China's been up to in terms of scale and aggression.
And you are right, there wasn't a South Korea until the US/UK/Russia coalition decided to divide the peninsula in 1945. Which also means they bequeathed to us North Korea as well.
In any case, this has been done to death, good day. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Now it's in the Korean media that US gang members have infiltrated the US military-
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/11/116_98361.html
A number of American gang members have sneaked into Korea as service members of the U.S. forces, the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said in a report, raising concerns of their involvement in criminal behavior here.
The report didn�t mention the exact number of U.S. gang members in Korea, but as of April, the FBI has identified people from at least 53 gangs whose members have served in or are affiliated with U.S. military.
�Many U.S. street gang members join the military to escape the gang lifestyle or as an alternative to incarceration,� said the report under the headline �2011 National Gang Threat Assessment.� �But they often revert back to their gang associations once they encounter other gang members in the military.� |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: Re: When are the US Soldiers going home? |
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| valhor wrote: |
I've heard lots about about how negatively the U.S. soldiers are viewed in S. Korea from everyone from my K girlfriend to her family, her friends.. etc.
After hearing this and reading/noticing that American soldiers seem to carry a negative stigma based on past events, now the most recent news of rape charges.. How much longer is the United States going to be stationed in Korea? I mean the U.S. pays a lot of money to keep them here, when all they seem to have going is a negative reputation that apparently rightly deserve.
I might be steaming here, but.. When are the soldiers stationed in Seoul and other parts of S. Korea going to pull out and be sent home? Is there a upcoming date? From a brief check on Google I didn't see any. |
There are several misconceptions in this thread which need to be cleared up. But first of all, let's start with the one possibly started by Donald Trump. In fact, contrary to what he or you may think, South Korea is currently paying 694 million US dollars for the US army to keep its soldiers here. Next year, the payment will probably be higher.
So, I guess that the US army will leave when South Korea quits paying.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-south-korea-doesnt-pay-us-troop-/ |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Of course gang bangers have slipped in. Back in like 2004 Michael Moore showed us they were so desperate for fodder that they were cynically recruiting in deprived areas. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| �Many U.S. street gang members join the military to escape the gang lifestyle or as an alternative to incarceration,� said the report under the headline �2011 National Gang Threat Assessment.� |
And exactly how can they join as "an alternative to incarceration?" If they are facing incarceration, they cannot enlist. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| itistime wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
Loads of Koreans want the military to depart.
Many are aware of the advantages of having had the military
here.
Still want your nice cars, apartments, cell phones, smart pads, communications in general, shopping trips, surgeries and many
of the other luxuries that Koreans have become so comfortable
owning? How many Koreans would be willing to give these up?
Rarely any. Captain Consumption has you hooked. You think
good ol' Korean innovation and hard work are the reasons that
most people have these comforts?
. |
Yes, it is. The military didn't come in and hand out all these "luxuries". Koreans had to work for them. And before you start spouting off about the U.S giving money to them remember that the U.S has given more money to other countries that are still far less developed than South Korea. So the money is obviously only a small part of it.
Why make posts if they only make you look uninformed? We've already got plenty of those around here. |
Myth. Think you do some good for this board helping out new folks and such. Cheers to that.
But, I am far from uninformed. I may make broad statements at times before being asked to elaborate, but that is a far cry from not knowing anything about foreign policy towards our korean friends over the past few decades.
Would SK have the 'things' they do without U.S. intervention way back when? You already know the answer to that. Has the continued presence of U.S. military here been propelling the 'success' of SK?
You already know the answer to that. Has the U.S. thrown kabillions of dollars into SK over the years? Subsidizing exports up to 70% for many years turned the backwater country into an Asian powerhouse overnight.
Nobody could compete. Compared to aid in many other countries, there has never been the type of military support and cooperation that exists here.
On top of all the monetary assistance...we'll call it 'aid'...the PRESENCE of security has made them very dependent on 'big brother'. Instead of worrying about security, they have been able to move into higher leveled stages of economic development, again and again. Look at the education and manufacturing of tech advances. Here's a ladder. Just climb it.
I could give LOADS more examples if you like.
Hard work has helped SK become successful, as it would only benefit any emerging economy. I'm saying that the 'success' of SK would not be anywhere near it's current level had it not been for the presence of the U.S. military. Doesn't that make sense? Success takes hard work. But, when you have someone giving you all the answers, you move a lot faster.
As for the military being here....well, the rulers of the world know why they're here. They won't be leaving any time soon.
I'm tired. Daves is exhausting. Taking a break. |
Your basic premise is true. Without U.S. support, Korea would not be where it is.
As for Korea being the biggest global beneficiary...Sorry, but Western Europe (NATO), Japan, and Israel have benefited just as much. Western Europe and Japan were rebuilt and lived under the U.S. defense umbrella as well AND had massive amounts of troops (more than S.Korea) stationed to deter invasion, in large part due to their pacifist clauses. Neither Germany, nor Japan has mandatory conscription, unlike S.Korea. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
| What exactly are you interested in? |
Oh, perhaps percentages instead of the nebulous term "loads of." And perhaps a clear and concise explanation of why you are anti-military instead of simply tossing out that term as though it's all that meaningful. |
Just as I thought. You have nothing. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| itistime wrote: |
Most Koreans I've spoken with over the past 18 months or so, have stated that they would like to see a withdrawal.
I thought of you today and wanted to give you a better answer. I took a survey, ya see. I have great relationships with several of my coworkers.
Point Blank Question (to 16 teachers): Do you think the U.S. military should start withdrawing? 13 said yes. That's over 75%, right? I guess I've heard that from a total of 40 or so in my time here. 'Loads'? Eh, my choice of wording. I'll bet we could start an online poll.
What's the name of that site? Sentry? Have them start one. Betcha it'd be LOADS. |
When Koreans tell you they want the US military to withdraw, they're saying that to you because you're a foreigner and they want to put on a brave face, instead of admitting the embarrassing truth. But talk is cheap. If you want to find men who truly want to see an American presence out of their country, you can find such men in Afghanistan. The Koreans talk a big game but never even try to back it up. |
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chrisinkorea2011
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
Most Koreans I've spoken with over the past 18 months or so, have stated that they would like to see a withdrawal.
I thought of you today and wanted to give you a better answer. I took a survey, ya see. I have great relationships with several of my coworkers.
Point Blank Question (to 16 teachers): Do you think the U.S. military should start withdrawing? 13 said yes. That's over 75%, right? I guess I've heard that from a total of 40 or so in my time here. 'Loads'? Eh, my choice of wording. I'll bet we could start an online poll.
What's the name of that site? Sentry? Have them start one. Betcha it'd be LOADS. |
When Koreans tell you they want the US military to withdraw, they're saying that to you because you're a foreigner and they want to put on a brave face, instead of admitting the embarrassing truth. But talk is cheap. If you want to find men who truly want to see an American presence out of their country, you can find such men in Afghanistan. The Koreans talk a big game but never even try to back it up. |
This is true ^_^ seriously if korea REALLY wanted the US military out of here they could tell them to leave. But the reality is Korea ISNT that stupid. Korea is where it is at because of intervention. But id like to see how korea would fare if the US ever left. Im thinking a gradual decline would be almost imminent. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| chrisinkorea2011 wrote: |
| Reggie wrote: |
| itistime wrote: |
Most Koreans I've spoken with over the past 18 months or so, have stated that they would like to see a withdrawal.
I thought of you today and wanted to give you a better answer. I took a survey, ya see. I have great relationships with several of my coworkers.
Point Blank Question (to 16 teachers): Do you think the U.S. military should start withdrawing? 13 said yes. That's over 75%, right? I guess I've heard that from a total of 40 or so in my time here. 'Loads'? Eh, my choice of wording. I'll bet we could start an online poll.
What's the name of that site? Sentry? Have them start one. Betcha it'd be LOADS. |
When Koreans tell you they want the US military to withdraw, they're saying that to you because you're a foreigner and they want to put on a brave face, instead of admitting the embarrassing truth. But talk is cheap. If you want to find men who truly want to see an American presence out of their country, you can find such men in Afghanistan. The Koreans talk a big game but never even try to back it up. |
This is true ^_^ seriously if korea REALLY wanted the US military out of here they could tell them to leave. But the reality is Korea ISNT that stupid. Korea is where it is at because of intervention. But id like to see how korea would fare if the US ever left. Im thinking a gradual decline would be almost imminent. |
THAT'S ABSURD!
Like Vietnam is so much worse off now that Americans aren't bringing them "freedom and democracy" in the form of agent orange, massacaring villagers, killing, raping and bombing.  |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: |
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The Viet Cong guerilla fighters of South Vietnam were a good example of people who wanted the American soldiers out and accomplished it instead of sitting around talking.
Would the people of South Vietnam have a much larger per capita income had they not kicked the Americans (and South Koreans) out? Probably. I imagine we would've pumped enormous sums of money into their economy in order to make South Vietnam more successful than North Vietnam, based upon the pattern of the Marshall Plan in Europe after WWII and the dumping of loads of money into South Korea after the Korean War. But the Vietnamese wanted the American military out and made tremendous sacrifices to achieve their goal. The Vietnamese lost out on decades of foreign investment and have fewer toys than the Koreans.
The Vietnamese were sincere about their desire to see the American military leave. With the South Koreans, it's just "face saving" talk. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Code: |
| This is true ^_^ seriously if korea REALLY wanted the US military out of here they could tell them to leave. But the reality is Korea ISNT that stupid. Korea is where it is at because of intervention. But id like to see how korea would fare if the US ever left. Im thinking a gradual decline would be almost imminent. |
If they left I see a few possible scenarios.
1. The Norks go to war, wanting their government to govern the whole peninsular.
2. China knowing this and wanting stability now it needs trading partners in the region etc, make NK a vassal state of China as a preemptive safety measure, or at the least pumping more money into the place in order to help them develop (idealistic of me, the latter idea?)
Or
3. Reunification now that the 'yankee imperialists' have left?
Oh come now, don't be such cynics.... |
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