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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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i'm the first 1 to rubbish the koreans for anything out of the ordinary...
and i usually give em heaps too...
but in this situation... there is (spose to be) evidence of the sea being named BC. i think it is pretty rude of japan to stick it up their ass and now call for it be named the sea of japan.
if japan has a record of naming in before the koreans i'll shut up.
it seems they think they have the right after they invaded korea..
i also think japan is a better country than korea in some respects not when it comes to invasion. they were greedy little buggers.
its been the sea of korea or the east sea for 2000 years from korea and china has also used it for a damn sight longer than any sea of japan.. 200 years is pitance compared to 2000.. sod off japan. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| And it seems especially amusing that the Koreans, having prided themselves on being the "hermit kingdom" and disdaining either knowing the outside world or having the outside world know of them, therefore naturally naming the surrounding bodies of water simplistically as the "West Sea", "South Sea", and "East Sea" now demand that the outside world accept these names. |
That's what tipped it for me, too. Those who wish to defend the "East Sea" claim studiously avoid this inescapable fact.
I don't know how the Koreans can claim with a straight face that the world should proclaim Korea the center of the universe and name the seas surrounding it accordingly.
We all know the center of the universe is in Greenwich. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| And it seems especially amusing that the Koreans, having prided themselves on being the "hermit kingdom" and disdaining either knowing the outside world or having the outside world know of them, therefore naturally naming the surrounding bodies of water simplistically as the "West Sea", "South Sea", and "East Sea" now demand that the outside world accept these names. |
That's what tipped it for me, too. Those who wish to defend the "East Sea" claim studiously avoid this inescapable fact.
I don't know how the Koreans can claim with a straight face that the world should proclaim Korea the center of the universe and name the seas surrounding it accordingly.
We all know the center of the universe is in Greenwich. |
i dont know how japan can take a body of water that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia and call it the sea of japan..
behind the koreans on this one sorry.. i don't agree we should change change the names of things because you have issues with korean pride
http://www.japan-101.com/geography/sea_of_japan_disputes_over_the_name.htm
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Korea raised the issue in 1992 at the 6th UN Conference on the Standardization of Geographic Names (UNCSGN). In 1997, the resulting UNCSGN resolution passed 111/20, and called on Korea and Japan to reach a consensus. The Japanese government has historically refused to discuss this issue.
Because the issue continues to be unresolved between the two countries, International Hydrographic Organization (IHO), once planned to drop the name Sea of Japan and left the area blank, but withdrawn after Japan's objection. |
my opinion... regardless of korean claim on the sea it shouldn't be called the sea of japan... it is on the edge of asia.. it should be called something to represent the continent.. not a spec of islands |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| And it seems especially amusing that the Koreans, having prided themselves on being the "hermit kingdom" and disdaining either knowing the outside world or having the outside world know of them, therefore naturally naming the surrounding bodies of water simplistically as the "West Sea", "South Sea", and "East Sea" now demand that the outside world accept these names. |
That's what tipped it for me, too. Those who wish to defend the "East Sea" claim studiously avoid this inescapable fact.
I don't know how the Koreans can claim with a straight face that the world should proclaim Korea the center of the universe and name the seas surrounding it accordingly.
We all know the center of the universe is in Greenwich. |
I suppose you're trying to be sarcastic, but you bring up a good point.
We could all go around proudly complaining that "Noon is when I say it's noon!" and to some extent you have countries doing that (cf. China), but the fact is that we all accept that noon is when it's noon in Greenwich.
While Korea purposely and arrogantly kept itself aloof from the world, others were busy setting standards regarding navigation, time, and whatnot. Accordingly, it is a bit presumptuous for a Johnny-come-lately to now say, "You all have to call beets 'poopy-fruit' because that's what I've always called it!" long after the rest of us have grown up and learned to eat our vegetables. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| wylde wrote: |
i dont know how japan can take a body of water that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia and call it the sea of japan..
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According to the link you provided, it didn't.
Wylde, you continue to post references that argue against yourself, which suggests you don't even read them all the way through first. According to the link you just gave us, the above statement is false. Here's what your source says:
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| The "Sea of Japan" was not named by the Japanese people. |
What's more, the article makes another excellent point against the Korean claim: it's a recent nationalist cause:
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| It was in 1995 that Korea first adopted "East Sea" and deleted "Japan Sea" on their charts. In fact Korea had accepted "Japan Sea" until early 1990s. |
Last edited by The Lemon on Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| wylde wrote: |
| The Lemon wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| And it seems especially amusing that the Koreans, having prided themselves on being the "hermit kingdom" and disdaining either knowing the outside world or having the outside world know of them, therefore naturally naming the surrounding bodies of water simplistically as the "West Sea", "South Sea", and "East Sea" now demand that the outside world accept these names. |
That's what tipped it for me, too. Those who wish to defend the "East Sea" claim studiously avoid this inescapable fact.
I don't know how the Koreans can claim with a straight face that the world should proclaim Korea the center of the universe and name the seas surrounding it accordingly.
We all know the center of the universe is in Greenwich. |
i dont know how japan can take a body of water that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia and call it the sea of japan..
behind the koreans on this one sorry.. i don't agree we should change change the names of things because you have issues with korean pride |
Frankly, I don't have a dog in this fight and I am not one of those foreigners who pathetically takes sides in the Korea-Japan thing.
But I do resent Koreans decreeing, for example, how their script must be Romanized (when we don't tell them how our scripts should be written using their alphabet) and what we should call bodies of water in our languages.
Look at your own point....why can't Russia call it the "South Sea", Japan the "Sea of Japan" or "West Sea"?
| wylde wrote: |
| my opinion... regardless of korean claim on the sea it shouldn't be called the sea of japan... it is on the edge of asia.. it should be called something to represent the continent.. not a spec of islands |
In the same vein, I propose renaming the "Gulf of Mexico". |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, the "Indian Ocean" always bothered me, too. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| Actually, the "Indian Ocean" always bothered me, too. |
Yeah, I've only experienced the "Indian Ocean" off the coast of Australia. I propose calling it the "Perth Pool".  |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| I like "The sea of tranquillity". Its good that they're at least giving seas on moons and planets in space neutral names... |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| me wrote: |
| i dont know how japan can take a body of water that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia and call it the sea of japan.. |
sorry.. let me clear it up for you... i dont know how somebody with no relationship with this part of the world can name anything and secondly i don't know how japan can defend the naming of a body of water 'the sea of japan' that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia.
| Quote: |
| Look at your own point....why can't Russia call it the "South Sea", Japan the "Sea of Japan" or "West Sea"? |
it is not directly south of russia whereas it is directly east of asia.
it can't be named after a country, it must be neutral.... but, korea did name it first. i haven't read anywhere about anybody disputing that fact.
i'm happy with the indian ocean... australia has no right to change it.. we only been there 200 years.. hmm.. 200 years.. sounds familiar doesn't it. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| wylde wrote: |
| sorry.. let me clear it up for you... i dont know how somebody with no relationship with this part of the world can name anything and secondly i don't know how japan can defend the naming of a body of water 'the sea of japan' that touches with sth korea, nth korea & russia. |
I leave for the day, and when I come back... BOOM! You're still playing both sides of the coin while not doing what you say others should do. The names Japan and Korea are not native names, they are names given to the countries by outsiders. I don't know about Korea, but Japan fought against the assigned name for decades and demanded that they be called by their actual name, Nippon.
Korea, in contrast, sort of never really had a name so the name "Korea" was derived from the "Koryo Dynasty" which ceased to be about six hundred years ago. Anyone who showed up and said "hey, you name is Korea now" was made a hostage for life and could never leave, so finding out if they were angry or not over getting an assigned name might be a bit hard.
Thus the same logic was used when naming the water. Outsiders didn't care what the locals called it, and dubbed it 'Sea of Japan' because it was close to Japan. Actually, it was called a lot of names (as I mentioned earlier), but after Japan became commercially important that name stuck.
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| it is not directly south of russia whereas it is directly east of asia. |
Have you looked at a map recently?
It's almost entirely "directly south of Russia" to the point that more than 90% of the water surface is directly south of Russia.
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| it can't be named after a country, it must be neutral.... but, korea did name it first. i haven't read anywhere about anybody disputing that fact. |
You haven't proved a thing. You say that some people may or may not have called what was or may not have been an ocean or sea "the East Sea" before anyone else.
Even an exhaustive study released on Monday by the Korean government, in surverying 700 historical maps from around the world, showed that no one called it "the East Sea" but a sizeable percentage did have the word "Korea" in it, but that was primarily of French influence for some reason rather than from multiple nations. Plus there are already three or four "East Seas" along Asia already.
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| i'm happy with the indian ocean... australia has no right to change it.. we only been there 200 years.. hmm.. 200 years.. sounds familiar doesn't it. |
Ironically, the same people who named it "The Indian Ocean" are same people who drew "Sea of Japan" on maps. Would you like to know just how many names it actually has in India?
Last edited by Gord on Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:29 am Post subject: |
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yea yea..
what i can see that is south of russia is mongolia.. if it were where mongolia is i could not dispute it being called the sth russia sea.. but it is not
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| Ironically, the same people who named it "The Indian Ocean" are same people who drew "Sea of Japan" on maps. Would you like to know just how many names it actually has in India? |
meaning i don't care about the indian ocean..
australia has no right to name it.. it was named long before we arrived..
same as korea.. same.. same.. say it with me...... same
the east sea was named long before the foreigners arrived. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| wylde wrote: |
yea yea..
what i can see that is south of russia is mongolia.. if it were where mongolia is i could not dispute it being called the sth russia sea.. but it is not |
So when you look the Sea of Japan and then go directly north of it, you don't see Russia?
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meaning i don't care about the indian ocean..
australia has no right to name it.. it was named long before we arrived.. |
It was named by Europeans without the request or consent of the region it was being named after. Pretty much like everything else.
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same as korea.. same.. same.. say it with me...... same
the east sea was named long before the foreigners arrived. |
That's a curious side to take, because originally Korea was inhabited by nomadic tribes who would have assigned it a name that probably wasn't "East Sea". I'm sure we could probably find out what it was originally called, and by your logic since they were there first we should call it by that name? The name "East Sea" is more of a recent thing when people began to make a power play to control the entire place and dub it as the centre of the universe.
Just curious, do we call it by that name, or do we translate it into English?
Though you could just admit that you formed your opinion before you thought about it, and now you're desparately trying to defend your position with outlandish claims and questionable evidence which are only causing you great embarrassment as we review them. That's ok, we will forgive you. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:57 am Post subject: |
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i see the east coast of russia.. maybe the south east russia sea but it more precise if it is called the east asia sea.
all that typing.. still making no sense.. just attacking me and going around the subject...
show where in history is is documented as being named by tribes
same as the indian ocean.. show me a document or some proof that is has a name previously
this is a clear point.. don't go doing loop di loops to try and get out of this..
the first record of a name for that sea was the east sea...
and to be honest... i don't know of another name that was used before the indian ocean of the south.. so maybe, just maybe it was the first ever recorded name..
we are trying to go off facts here not what ifs  |
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