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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| I hung around the school and waited around the school. After the first class the students were confused because they could not understand why another teacher was in the classroom, but I was still there. I kept my mouth shut though about the incident to the students. Then I was asked to leave the school by the company lady. |
This is the worst move you have taken yet. Now even if the labour office rule in your favor, these guys will stall for as long as humanly possible as you made them lose face.
They probably told the kids you had gone back home for some emergency reason and now you have shown it was a lie.
No offense, but you shoulda stayed away as requested and just gone to the labour office.
Now they might be feeling 'ill will.'
good luck anyhow. |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
You may be playing the devil's advocate here, but in this case the "devil" has a point...a very good point. Well done.
Add this to what Tom said on the previous page concerning back taxes and Health Insurance back payments, plus the pension backpayment issue and the OP should be pretty careful about how he proceeds here. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| I-am-me wrote: |
| where is new teacher going to live? They havent kicked you out of apartment yet? Go to the tax office and and pension office to check if they paid into it. Hagwons are afraid of the tax office. |
Decent idea. Do note however that if your Hakwon has not been paying into the pension fund it typically means you have not paid into it either. If that determination is made, the pension service will ask the school and the teacher to pay into the pension scheme for whatever money has not been paid. That means the OP could have to send a backpayment to the pension service.
Just something to keep in mind. |
And along with the NPS back payments there are the NHIC back payments from the entry date into Korea to the termination of employment. Same may be true of the tax man if payments weren't properly deducted or remitted.
If he wants to go to the wall on the whole ball of wax, then go for it.
If not, then be careful who, besides the labor board, he files complaints with.
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Pension payments have not been made. Pension wasn't it either of the contracts. Taxes have been paid according tot he payment stubs that were mailed to me. If I am required to pay a lump sum from by the pension service and the company has to match, then so be it.
I have a lot more information regarding this situation, including finally getting a copy of the contract from the school, which the company never bothered to provide for me.
I have finally talked to the manager on the phone. The conversation was simple. I offered to have a discussion with the company and the school and resolve this situation. The answer was no because the company and school want nothing to do with me. It was mentioned that since I came into the school, the threat to cancel my visa was made. However, nothing has been reported to immigration. Inaddition, even if they do cancel my visa, immigration said I can just change the E2 to a D10 (looking for work visa) because I already submitted all the documents they required to process a new visa. I am also permitted to find another job with a different employer.
This situaiton is getting more and more confusing and ugly though. I already filed against the company based on the labor board's suggestion. They told me to do so because they were the ones who hired me and they were the ones who sent me the email about the termination. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
No, the devil has a vallid case in this instance.
The op had zero business emailing / texting / contacting the parents whatoever.
Their job was to teach. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
I appreceiate you point. And yes, you make a good case. however, I did discuss some matters with the Korean teacher about past instinces however, nothing was resolved. These occurances happen many months ago and were exceptionally rare. If it did hurt the school by surely it could have been mentioned. Also, I have received no warnings on my record about texts and sending home letters. Could it used against me, sure, I cannot see how sending a letter or text home about a students behavior causes damages to the school. however, does that give the school and company the authority to bend the labor laws, no.
Had the school and company not just made a decision on impulse leave me out in the cold and at least agreed to speak with me about the situation together then it would have been a different story. How they dealt with the situation with a simple "Get out and don't come back and we want nothing to do with you" is completely unacceptable and far worse than me sending a text saying " X student does not bring his book to class. Please make sure he/she brings it next time." or a note saying "X student should not spit on other students." As far as I am aware neither are classified as being illegal activities. Terminating a contract without notice during the 9th month is indeed illegal.
FYI: This is not a hogwon. This is an elementary school after school program at hand. All of the students in the after school program are students from the elementary school.
The labor told me that way BOTH the company and the school handled the problem was not correct. They will need to supply evidence to show that immediate termination was justified. Sending that email did them no favors. The labor board said that is a strong piece of evidence in my favor because they flat out admitted in writting that they broke regulations. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| FYI: This is not a hogwon. This is an elementary school after school program at hand. All of the students in the after school program are students from the elementary school. |
FYI - same same.
FYI.2 - Luckilly as the AS company is connected to the school - they will eventually have to play ball with the labour office or face the school distancing themselves from the company as the MOE wont tolerate their schools getting a bad rep for employing the services of disreputable companies.
That said, I worked for an AS company (winedu / edup) - one of the biggest in Seoul - and they screwed a co-worker and would've screwed me too had I not been on the ball about the labour ofice and the rules etc.
As you are on the game and have the ball rolling in that regard - things should work out for you.
The only one recourse they have is to invent slanderous claims and try to get you deported. This does happen (again to yours truly) but is rare and is unlikely as the police and immi are more on the ball in investigating such issues these days.
Good luck! |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Quote: |
| FYI: This is not a hogwon. This is an elementary school after school program at hand. All of the students in the after school program are students from the elementary school. |
FYI - same same.
FYI.2 - Luckilly as the AS company is connected to the school - they will eventually have to play ball with the labour office or face the school distancing themselves from the company as the MOE wont tolerate their schools getting a bad rep for employing the services of disreputable companies.
That said, I worked for an AS company (winedu / edup) - one of the biggest in Seoul - and they screwed a co-worker and would've screwed me too had I not been on the ball about the labour ofice and the rules etc.
As you are on the game and have the ball rolling in that regard - things should work out for you.
The only one recourse they have is to invent slanderous claims and try to get you deported. This does happen (again to yours truly) but is rare and is unlikely as the police and immi are more on the ball in investigating such issues these days.
Good luck! |
Immigration knows about this because I had to go there to get a copy of the contract from the school. As far as they see it, I have done nothing wrong. Moreover, they were shocked because the contract I gave them and the one on file did not match, meaning the company hid the school's contract. Pieces of the contract that were omitted from the company's contract such as severance. Nonetheless severance is manditory even if it is not written in the contract. The company also knows I have a copy of the contract because the immigration officer called the manager.
In short, according to immigration the contract with the school is visa binding contract. The contract with me and the company is a private matter. They assured me that I have done nothing illegal or violated an laws with immigration. As regards to their threats of cancelling. The school must cancel the visa, not the company. So the company's threat of cancelling my visa is complete hogwash.
Immigration told me that I am free and able to search for new employment. I can either try and get a release eltter from the company or wait until Deceber 3rd and transfer my E2 into a D10 without any problems.
The labor board says I should file a claim against both, but from the way tehy see it, the company is the one whom is more to blame because they sent the termination email. Also stating in the email that they want to distance themself from me means they are trying to terminate their obligations in their contract. Since the company pays me they are the ones who are ultimately held more liable.
I beleive if the school gets involved, it could destroy the business agreement if legal actions are filed against both thus putting a blemish on their image.
I offered the company manager an alternative of having us sit down and discuss this issue. I think the three of us could have made an agreement. Unofrtunely, he refused and wants me just to go away, so I have no choice but to speak my case through the labor board. I am also not allowed to go to the school either. So really, what are my options? I have no choice but to go through the labor board. If the company loses the contract with the school, then so be it. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
No, the devil has a vallid case in this instance.
The op had zero business emailing / texting / contacting the parents whatoever.
Their job was to teach. |
Yeah I sued the teacher who "threat" to do so, he then had to pay 3M won in fines after a criminal charge. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
OP, was it your job to e-mail parents? Why the hell were you doing that? If you were working for me, I'd be ticked off, too. At a hagwon, those things should be dealt with internally and through your boss before you jump and decide to take things in your own hands. You think parents were happy to hear you complaining about their kids? Kids that they view as never doing any wrong?
Your employer might have a case. You affected the repuation of the school. Could be grounds for immediate dismissal. What does it say in your contract about school reputation?
Really, though, I'm on your side. You should get 30 days' notice or pay. They should've approached you about this. But things get misconstrued with parents and such. They probably want you gone (well some or a few).
I'm playing the devil's advocate a little here. |
No, the devil has a vallid case in this instance.
The op had zero business emailing / texting / contacting the parents whatoever.
Their job was to teach. |
Yeah I sued the teacher who "threat" to do so, he then had to pay 3M won in fines after a criminal charge. |
What was the charge? |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| I-am-me wrote: |
| where is new teacher going to live? They havent kicked you out of apartment yet? Go to the tax office and and pension office to check if they paid into it. Hagwons are afraid of the tax office. |
I have my own place and got housing allowance. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Good things are getting clarified for you OP. It is also expected they are getting more confusing as these types of things rarely get solved easily!
I hope it goes well for you.
Still, I have to agree the texting of parents was not your wisest move. For future reference, at a Hakwon, Public School or After-School program, BEFORE you text or contact parents directly, it is always wise to get written permission (ideally) or at least to clear it with management. This does not make what the school did right however, you have a case. Just something to consider in the future. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Good things are getting clarified for you OP. It is also expected they are getting more confusing as these types of things rarely get solved easily!
I hope it goes well for you.
Still, I have to agree the texting of parents was not your wisest move. For future reference, at a Hakwon, Public School or After-School program, BEFORE you text or contact parents directly, it is always wise to get written permission (ideally) or at least to clear it with management. This does not make what the school did right however, you have a case. Just something to consider in the future. |
I will keep that in mind. However, I don't expect the texting or notes to be an issue. Also it was something that was not done regularly. Although I did text some parents the homework assignments, regularly if they requested. I am sure that would not be a problem. |
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I-am-me
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Hermit Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you Korean? I woud never try texting a parent with my little knowledge of korean. I might end up texting something objectionable!! Let us know what happens with labor board. This is an interesting story. |
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chachee99
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Actions against both the company and school have been filed. The labor board contacted the company. They are basically playing the blame game of "following school orders" and have done nothing wrong. They claim that the immediate dismissal is legitimate because of the wording of the contract. The person at the labor board explained that 30 days notice is required and read the rule to them.
I was told that the incident is under investigation. The company and/ or school will have to submit their side of the story. Once that has been completed, they will contact me. In the mean time, I think I am going to have to find a translator. I wil also need to prepare my own evidence about the dismissal. Does anyone know where I can find or hire a translator? I will need them to translate some documents and appear with me if I have to present my case infront of a commitee. |
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