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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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AlastairKirby
Joined: 29 Aug 2011 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Firearcher wrote: |
I actually support the employer.
Why is it ok to do the following:
1. Ask for Females preferred
2. Have All Black Colleges where other races are excluded
3. Have jobs for "Native Indians" only.
4. Post jobs that in the Police & Fire Dept requesting "Non whites" only
5. Have Affirmative Action programs that benefit all people but whites.
Globally whites are a minority.
From a western viewpoint, It seems that its ok to give a leg up to any segment of society except on the basis of being male or being white.
The moment you do someone plays the race card.
If any of you complain about this Korean employer try complaining about all the gender and racial injustices outlined above first. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Firearcher wrote: |
I actually support the employer.
Why is it ok to do the following:
1. Ask for Females preferred
2. Have All Black Colleges where other races are excluded
3. Have jobs for "Native Indians" only.
4. Post jobs that in the Police & Fire Dept requesting "Non whites" only
5. Have Affirmative Action programs that benefit all people but whites.
Globally whites are a minority.
From a western viewpoint, It seems that its ok to give a leg up to any segment of society except on the basis of being male or being white.
The moment you do someone plays the race card.
If any of you complain about this Korean employer try complaining about all the gender and racial injustices outlined above first. |
Tell me you dont teach here.
Can you please let us know what "all black college" there is that excludes other races? Please let us know when you find it.
And where exactly do employers look for "Native Indians"? In India? Why couldnt they just settle for a "non-native" one?
Also, affirmative action benefits the minority, which actually does include white people sometime (ever been to a University of California campus?). I'm not a fan of affirmative action, but people tend to ignore the other 10 or so traits that are used to determine a minority and skip straight to race.
But to answer your question, none of those things are right, even the ones that apparently exist in your imagination. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011 Location: Here
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Priceless. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| shostahoosier wrote: |
| Can you please let us know what "all black college" there is that excludes other races? Please let us know when you find it. |
Quite true; I think you'd actually be hard-pressed finding an HBCU that didn't provide extra benefits to a non-black applicant. I know a couple white guys going to grad school at these "all black colleges" specifically because those schools gave them great benefits as a means of diversifying their student bodies. |
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sing81
Joined: 09 Apr 2011 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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If Koreans prefer Caucasians, that's really sad because Caucasians don't prefer them, at least not for the right reasons. When I saw instances of foreigners behaving badly, they were always Caucasians and mostly males. You hear cases of child molestation, interracial marrages that end in divorce and child abandonment, and blantant drug use. Of course, this isn't always the case, but the fact these bad people feel comfortable doing this in Korea speaks volumes.
I met a Caucasian male, who seem to suffer from a drug abuse problem, while riding the bus and after talking to him I found out that he taught children. My sister who actually studied drug abuse in a lab with rats told me he was an addict of some kind. Here in the states drug use is more prevalent among Caucasians than other racial groups. Among Caucasians it affects the upper and middle class as well as lower income and uneducated groups of people.
These same individuals, who come to teach in Korea, would not do some of these things in their own country, so the preference is one sided. Any time you have to go through some kind of red tape, Koreans always bring up cases of foreigners acting badly in the past; and when I first came to Korea, most foreigners were Caucasian males.
On the other hand, when foreigners, the majority being Caucasian, talk of the good places to teach or cool places to visit, they don't usually mention Korea. At home when people from the states talk aout Asia, it's Japan or China. Korea doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar unless they are talking about nuclear threats from North Korea. Many Americans might even think South Korea is an undeveloped country, if they even spend time thinking about it at all. So the relationship seems lopsided at best, maybe even a relationship of racial exploitation, like a modernize Colonial USA, except the Native Americans eventually got wise. Koreans may never figure it out. Only until recently they started requiring foreigners to get national criminal checks. They seem to be completely oblivious to any exploitation, until it's overwhelmingly apparent. Anyone with common sense would think: maybe these users have gotten what they wanted and left you holding the bag. In this case, it being an insolvent business. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sing81 wrote: |
(1) Here in the states drug use is more prevalent among Caucasians than other racial groups.
(2) . Among Caucasians it affects the upper and middle class as well as lower income and uneducated groups of people.
] |
numbers are mine
(1) Links?
(2) So it doesn't affect the upper and middle class of other racial groups? |
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sing81
Joined: 09 Apr 2011 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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It affects Caucasians, regardless of class, more than other racial groups. That doesn't mean that it does not affect other racial groups, regardless of class, at all. For instance, I went to a boarding school which was predominately Caucasian. Most of the girls that went there were upper middle class to wealthy. As a percentage, more Caucasians there abuse drugs than the minorities. And the wealthier they were, the more likely they were to abuse drugs on some level, like prescription drug abuse. This is true in the US in general.
In my personal experience, I have met more Caucasians with drug abuse problems, than any other group. These people could have been upper class or poor. I am non Caucasian and I have never abused drugs. My sister worked for a lab that studied drug abuse, and she has never done drugs, but two of her Caucasian co workers and even boss had drug abuse problems. If you care so much, join in the War Against drugs.
Of course, other racial groups have other problems, and many different people with various backgrounds do drugs. But it's more prevalent in the Caucasian community in the US. Some drugs like meth are more widely abused by Caucasians than other groups. I could find a statistic but I don't care enough to. What does it matter anyway? All groups have their problems. My point is that if a Korean employer wants to find a Caucasian teacher specifically, instead of just finding the best person possible, then they are doing themselves the most harm. I think this closed minded and perhaps racist behavior, on the part of Korean employers, may cause them more problems in the long term. As the old saying goes, you attract what you are. So maybe the reason why so many bad people come to Korea and do bad things is because these bad employers are hiring them. When they do find a good teacher, they don't often treat them well, regardless of race. However, for a Korean ESL business to prosper, they don't need a Caucasian teacher specifically. They need a good teacher. Race should not be a factor. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sing81 wrote: |
It affects Caucasians, regardless of class, more than other racial groups. That doesn't mean that it does not affect other racial groups, regardless of class, at all. For instance, I went to a boarding school which was predominately Caucasian. Most of the girls that went there were upper middle class to wealthy. As a percentage, more Caucasians there abuse drugs than the minorities. And the wealthier they were, the more likely they were to abuse drugs on some level, like prescription drug abuse. This is true in the US in general.
In my personal experience, I have met more Caucasians with drug abuse problems, than any other group. These people could have been upper class or poor.
. |
Your personal experience is not a valid sample. Can you give links to a peer-reviewed study which states that Caucasians are more prone to drug abuse than other racial groups? Prescription drug abuse maybe but I was under the impression we were discussing illicit drugs such as meth.
Here's something I just quickly Googled.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2920917
While Caucasians seemed to abuse liquor (a LEGAL drug) about twice as much, illicit drug use seems to be roughly about the same (given the normal margin of sample error). |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Firearcher wrote: |
I actually support the employer.
3. Have jobs for "Native Indians" only.
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You big dummy.  |
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proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| Firearcher wrote: |
I actually support the employer.
3. Have jobs for "Native Indians" only.
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You big dummy.  |
i LOL'd. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Go to Saramin, a Korean job listing website. 1/3 of the jobs listed in that website are "single female and high TOEIC score preferred".
Sadly, young Korean men are now the unprotected minority in the Korean society.  |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Edited because of double post.
Last edited by earthquakez on Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| sing81 wrote: |
If Koreans prefer Caucasians, that's really sad because Caucasians don't prefer them, at least not for the right reasons. When I saw instances of foreigners behaving badly, they were always Caucasians and mostly males. You hear cases of child molestation, interracial marrages that end in divorce and child abandonment, and blantant drug use. Of course, this isn't always the case, but the fact these bad people feel comfortable doing this in Korea speaks volumes.
I met a Caucasian male, who seem to suffer from a drug abuse problem, while riding the bus and after talking to him I found out that he taught children. My sister who actually studied drug abuse in a lab with rats told me he was an addict of some kind. Here in the states drug use is more prevalent among Caucasians than other racial groups. Among Caucasians it affects the upper and middle class as well as lower income and uneducated groups of people.
These same individuals, who come to teach in Korea, would not do some of these things in their own country, so the preference is one sided. Any time you have to go through some kind of red tape, Koreans always bring up cases of foreigners acting badly in the past; and when I first came to Korea, most foreigners were Caucasian males.
On the other hand, when foreigners, the majority being Caucasian, talk of the good places to teach or cool places to visit, they don't usually mention Korea. At home when people from the states talk aout Asia, it's Japan or China. Korea doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar unless they are talking about nuclear threats from North Korea. Many Americans might even think South Korea is an undeveloped country, if they even spend time thinking about it at all. So the relationship seems lopsided at best, maybe even a relationship of racial exploitation, like a modernize Colonial USA, except the Native Americans eventually got wise. Koreans may never figure it out. Only until recently they started requiring foreigners to get national criminal checks. They seem to be completely oblivious to any exploitation, until it's overwhelmingly apparent. Anyone with common sense would think: maybe these users have gotten what they wanted and left you holding the bag. In this case, it being an insolvent business. |
While I agree that the image of white English teachers could be spruced up by being more careful re who is employed, given the antics of some of them including the moronic Canadian woman who sent herself hash from Canada and the immature idiots who run the Korean Blackout blog, you really need to be taken to task on your blatant attacks on white English teachers. The misinformation regarding 'child molestation' is the first thing I'll deal with.
Over the past decade or so, the allegations of child molestation by English teachers that have their basis in fact as opposed to irresponsible stereotyping have actually been committed mostly by Korean Americans who by virtue of their ethnicity have received a free pass regarding lack of background checks. Including the relatively recent case of the gypo chap who fled to Japan after being accused of molesting children at his hagwon.
Then there's the case of the Korean American murderer who was allowed to open his own hagwon in Gangnam because so many Koreans have identitical names and he could pass as an ordinary gypo and not one who was wanted for murder in the US. Had the Korean authorities not been so blinded by the notion that Korean ethnicity somehow bestows upon the gypo an innate morality which precludes background checks for crimes committed, these people would have had a better chance of being found out prior to coming to Korea.
That is not to say that people of Korean ethnicity are more inclined to be murderers and paedophiles - it's just that unhelpful steretyping of foreigners including whites has led to a situation where there are unsavoury gypos literally getting away with murder in the US and being able to obtain residency visas in Korea with no problem, likewise gypo child molesters being able to operate freely because of the notion that those dreadful whites are going to molest children and not those with Korean blood.
From what I have read in the news there have been white English teachers accused of molesting children (the numbers are few) but the likewise few gypos with residency in Korea and involvement in the English teaching industry who have been accused of that crime have been accused at a higher rate of it. Everything points to the gypo who ran away to Japan being guilty and maybe he has been to court or paid money to the victim's family to make the problem go away. A Korean custom, I should add and a real parody of 'justice'.
You also don't seem to know any African Americans in the US because if you did you'd know that the demographics of drug use and drug abuse are about the same as those for whites. There are more cases of whites being found to use drugs because, guess what, they are greater in number than African Americans and Korean Americans. However, I wouldn't get too cocky about the supposed lack of drug use among other groups. In the UK, Korean students tend to sample the drugs on offer as much as other foreign students. The gypos I've known in Korea seem to take as many drugs such as marijuana as anybody else does when they are back in the US.
And while I understand the greater use of red tape to try and limit the number of whites who are not serious about teaching in Korea and get the standard of E-2ers higher, you fail to realise that other countries can actually generalise about Koreans' undesirability as tourists and residents (as well as citizens) with what is likely more validity than the usual slurs of people such as yourself against whites as drug users, rapists, abandoners of children and child molesters.
Koreans are profiled by a number of countries' Immigration sections because they are more likely than many other countries' peoples to attempt to enter the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK (to name only 5 countries) on tourist or student visas for the purposes of working as prostitutes. That is not most of them but it is a section of them that have used or attempt to use our Immigration systems to join up with expat Korean prostitution rings. Human trafficking rings established by Koreans have been the subject of high profile police investigation in the US, Canada and UK relatively recently.
Another website for English teachers abroad has an amazing thread devoted to newspaper reports of crimes committed by Korean nationals in the US, Canada, UK etc. This thread is a real eye opener for any Korean who thinks that stupid white English teachers smoking marijuana or eating hash cakes as well as drunk/disorderly behaviour (most of the crimes white English teachers do or accused of) are worse than Korean nationals engaging in crimes of prostitution, murder, rape and assault in white English teachers' home countries.
Perhaps you need to get a reality check or get some self confidence because a real issue I have noted with some Koreans who live in our countries is a tendency to be self pitying in the case of the males. This is in no small part due to the fact that they are used to living in Korean society where their absolute importance and habitual getting their own way goes on without question because of lack of real social/political equality of women and lack of the wide influence of feminism. If you had self esteem you would not spend your time worrying about white English teachers in Korea, particularly the males. |
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sing81
Joined: 09 Apr 2011 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Some Koreans will adopt the attitudes of some Caucasians, which is an attitude of superiority and the intention to degrade others of another race.
For instance at the University of South Carolina, I was falsely accused of cheating, although I have never cheated in college or high school. The professor said that I took an idea from the internet. I knew this wasn't true, but I was curious as to why he would say this when the work of fiction was not widely read in schools. Anyway after the class was finished and I received an A, I looked on the internet, and like I suspected, the story was not widely read and there were no papers on internet, much less those similar to mine. The professor had lied because I had a 4.0 for that term. Later, another English professor said in class, while looking at me, that it was arrogant for a student to want to earn good grades. At that time I was just one year from finishing a 4 year degree that took me 2.5 years to get. Of course racism still exists and is wide spread, especially in an academic setting in the South. Basically, this is it's new form; they can't keep schools segregated, so when good students go to Caucasian schools, they harass them. They are so shameless they arrange for harassment to occur when a former student is abroad. When one does well and earn high grades, they try to discredit the person of another race by proving that he cheated, even when there is no proof because it never happened. It's pure hatred for non-Caucasians who wish to succeed. One time, I was told that the only reason I worked hard was because of my dad forced me. How insulting to say that I was not naturally motivated to do well! It's my personality to try my best. This has nothing to do with my dad, because if it did my brothers would have been better students.
Also, racists will often look for fault, even though you worked very hard and it's evident. In a professional setting, most people will compliment and critique, because a professional is not trying to tear a co-worker down but trying to get the best work possible. However, the opposite happened to me while I was in Korea. There were Caucasian co-workers, who did not make an extra effort through they own admission, but I was criticized for working hard. I don't mind professional criticism, but twice my co-teacher told me that I didn't care and my work was lacking, even after working for four hours at school on 60 evaluations during my personal time. I had even come to work early, because I did not have a computer at the time. I could not simply be given specific critiques, even after asking, so that I may make changes and improve. No, the point of the exercise was to tear me down, because I was working hard, a typical occurrence at the University of South Carolina. When that happened I was immediately reminded of the professors at my university. The professors are force to give you good grades, because they don't want to be confronted or even sued, but all the while they are trying to find fault or to discredit you in order to support their racist attitudes. Some Koreans, because they themselves believe in Caucasian superiority, will take up this same immoral cause, even if it does not benefit them. |
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Udo
Joined: 22 May 2011 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I can tell you that African Americans who want to work in Korea dont need ESL jobs. I know from personal experience that mid to higher level General Schedule (GS) federal jobs go to blacks w/o an undergraduate. Lower level positions tend to be more open in the sense that military spouses or retirees compete for GS-01 to GS-05 jobs. Contractors - make big bucks -but they have highly specialized skills that are in high demand here- look it up. Office/Admin jobs in the gov't are fungible. I guess that the OPM has decided on diversity uber alles.
Every requirement is "waiverable." If you are black why would you want to work for some questionable ESL institute when you can make $100K w/ base privelidges for the gov't. I don't blame them.
If you don't beleive me, try applying for a government job (or any other large employer in the U.S.) and check "black" in the diversity questionaire.
Guaranteed you will get an interview appointment on the spot or a phone call. |
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