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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: How can liberals win on defense? |
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I'm sick and tired of conservatives getting an automatic pass on anything defense or military related. I think with the foreign policy debate the other night, it's clear that none of those people on stage should be at the helm of a powerful force like the American military.
President Obama has handled a responsible end to the war in Iraq, a necessary refocus on Afghanistan, the end of an Arab world dictator (w/out losing a single American life), and seen the deaths of dozens of top Al Queda operatives and commanders, as well as the figure head himself (OBL), and within weeks of taking office, showed terrorists and hostage takers that they will not be able to use American lives as collateral when he ordered the death of the African pirates that took hold of an American civilian ship. Yet, according to all those idiots on stage and almost any conservative or Republican, he has some how put us into "more" danger and his reelection would be disaster for the American military and security.
What more should he have done? Walked up to Osama and pumped a round into his head himself? Charged the mountains of Afghanistan with nothing but a knife and a battle cry? Agreed he has never worn a uniform, and that did make me a bit nervous at the beginning, but I think he has proven that is not an issue for him. In terms of foreign policy and defense policy, I can't think of a single major issue he's lost on or made the wrong call?
So, how do liberals begin to earn more credibility with the military? Will it take an entire generation of Democrats to serve in the Army before running for Congress? Obviously results simply aren't enough for most people. Why do Republicans automatically win the vote when it's about defense? How do George W. and Dick Cheney, one who was kicked out of the military for cocaine and the other who got 5 deferments to stay out of uniform win more credibility on defense over John Kerry and Al Gore, two guys who actually served in combat in Vietnam?
How do liberals win on defense? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| weso1 wrote: |
So, how do liberals begin to earn more credibility with the military? Will it take an entire generation of Democrats to serve in the Army before running for Congress? Obviously results simply aren't enough for most people. Why do Republicans automatically win the vote when it's about defense? How do George W. and Dick Cheney, one who was kicked out of the military for cocaine and the other who got 5 deferments to stay out of uniform win more credibility on defense over John Kerry and Al Gore, two guys who actually served in combat in Vietnam?
How do liberals win on defense? |
They can stop being cowards and cut defense spending.
Defense spending continues to escalate in a depression. Its one reason why people are looking for alternatives to Obama. |
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johnnyenglishteacher2
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| Kuros wrote: |
They can stop being cowards and cut defense spending.
Defense spending continues to escalate in a depression. Its one reason why people are looking for alternatives to Obama. |
They could also point to the USA on a world map and make their fellow citizens realise that to the West is the world's largest ocean, to the East is the 2nd largest, to the North and South are countries which are of no danger to the USA whatsoever. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
So, how do liberals begin to earn more credibility with the military? Will it take an entire generation of Democrats to serve in the Army before running for Congress? Obviously results simply aren't enough for most people. Why do Republicans automatically win the vote when it's about defense? How do George W. and Dick Cheney, one who was kicked out of the military for cocaine and the other who got 5 deferments to stay out of uniform win more credibility on defense over John Kerry and Al Gore, two guys who actually served in combat in Vietnam?
How do liberals win on defense? |
They can stop being cowards and cut defense spending.
Defense spending continues to escalate in a depression. Its one reason why people are looking for alternatives to Obama. |
What alternatives? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| To the OP, Liberals can't win on defense. Republicans/conservatives have successfully marketed themselves as being best at defending America even if facts suggest otherwise. They have even successfully made the term 'liberal' a bad word and having people apologize for labeling themselves as such. Conservatives have been more media savvy by and large |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| weso1 wrote: |
I'm sick and tired of conservatives getting an automatic pass on anything defense or military related. I think with the foreign policy debate the other night, it's clear that none of those people on stage should be at the helm of a powerful force like the American military.
President Obama has handled a responsible end to the war in Iraq, a necessary refocus on Afghanistan, the end of an Arab world dictator (w/out losing a single American life), and seen the deaths of dozens of top Al Queda operatives and commanders, as well as the figure head himself (OBL), and within weeks of taking office, showed terrorists and hostage takers that they will not be able to use American lives as collateral when he ordered the death of the African pirates that took hold of an American civilian ship. Yet, according to all those idiots on stage and almost any conservative or Republican, he has some how put us into "more" danger and his reelection would be disaster for the American military and security.
What more should he have done? Walked up to Osama and pumped a round into his head himself? Charged the mountains of Afghanistan with nothing but a knife and a battle cry? Agreed he has never worn a uniform, and that did make me a bit nervous at the beginning, but I think he has proven that is not an issue for him. In terms of foreign policy and defense policy, I can't think of a single major issue he's lost on or made the wrong call?
So, how do liberals begin to earn more credibility with the military? Will it take an entire generation of Democrats to serve in the Army before running for Congress? Obviously results simply aren't enough for most people. Why do Republicans automatically win the vote when it's about defense? How do George W. and Dick Cheney, one who was kicked out of the military for cocaine and the other who got 5 deferments to stay out of uniform win more credibility on defense over John Kerry and Al Gore, two guys who actually served in combat in Vietnam?
How do liberals win on defense? |
The simple answer is that they cannot win. The first area that a liberal wants to cut when talking about reducing the budget is the Department of Defense. A liberal's world view is that America is the aggressor and there would be peace if not for the evil military. Do not doubt me. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| weso1 wrote: |
y.
President Obama has handled a responsible end to the war in Iraq, |
It's still on-going. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
y.
President Obama has handled a responsible end to the war in Iraq, |
It's still on-going. |
Literally, every single member of the US military will be out by Xmas. Not just the combat troops. Every single one will be out in just a few weeks. It's over. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps they need to invade someone?
I say that sort of jokingly, but, maybe it's close to the truth. You joked about Obama storming a hillside. Maybe that's the sort of picture some Americans want (?) |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I love how some conservatives tried to downplay Bin Laden being taken out. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| johnnyenglishteacher2 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
They can stop being cowards and cut defense spending.
Defense spending continues to escalate in a depression. Its one reason why people are looking for alternatives to Obama. |
They could also point to the USA on a world map and make their fellow citizens realise that to the West is the world's largest ocean, to the East is the 2nd largest, to the North and South are countries which are of no danger to the USA whatsoever. |
This.
| Quote: |
| To the OP, Liberals can't win on defense. Republicans/conservatives have successfully marketed themselves as being best at defending America even if facts suggest otherwise. They have even successfully made the term 'liberal' a bad word and having people apologize for labeling themselves as such. Conservatives have been more media savvy by and large |
And this.
To quote Lincoln, and it still rings true today-
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| At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years... No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.� |
The biggest security threats involve pandemic diseases, cyber attacks, and trade/economic disruptions. The closest thing to an "enemy" that would truly threaten us if we withdrew from the world would be the Cartels. Not so much a threat to our national existence, but as a disruptive force that could get a fair number of people killed and be economically damaging. |
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weso1
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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All of your articles are out of date.
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_19167357
None. Zero. Nada.
They're still discussing if some will return in 12 as trainers, but at this point, come Xmas, none will be there. Only a handful to protect the embassy. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| For him to try to beat them on defense is idiotic, because how we approach defense as a country is idiotic and harmful. He should go the other way, reduce the military spending and not kill civilians with drone strikes and not assinate Iranian scientists. It would be unpopular at first, but when people see that deficit go done, and that military money used domestically people might forget about it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: How can liberals win on defense? |
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| weso1 wrote: |
All of your articles are out of date.
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_19167357
None. Zero. Nada.
They're still discussing if some will return in 12 as trainers, but at this point, come Xmas, none will be there. Only a handful to protect the embassy. |
Actually according to your article MORE than 150 will be still be there. Which does not equate to "None, Zero Nada."
Also from your article:
| Quote: |
But negotiations will continue, and some of those troops might find themselves redeployed to Iraq in 2012 or beyond, a U.S. official said Friday. But the official, who spoke anonymously because the deliberations are meant to be confidential, said the talks will now center on arrangements that would begin next year, after all U.S. troops leave.
Possibilities being discussed are for some troops to come back in 2012, an option preferred by some Iraqi politicians who want to claim credit for ending what many here still call an occupation, even though legally it ended years ago.
Other scenarios being discussed include training in the United States, in a neighboring country such as Kuwait or having some U.S. troops come back under the auspices of NATO.
In the meantime, an agreement is in place to keep more than 150 Defense Department personnel, both military and civilian, in Iraq to secure the U.S. Embassy, manage military sales and carry out standard duties of a defense attach and office of security cooperation. They will operate under the authority of the State Department, which will be taking the leading role in Iraq. |
So first off you are simply incorrect in your claim that all the military is leaving.
Secondly the door is being left wide open for a return.
Both from YOUR article that you posted. |
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