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Economist Article about South Korean Economy
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radcon



Joined: 23 May 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Park Chung Hee said that the extended family all living under one roof was a detriment to Korean advancement. If you are a young Korean and you don't have to make rent because you will live with your parents well into your thirties, you are less inclined to take a job that you don't want or that you feel is beneath you.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

liveinkorea316 wrote:
Korean taxi drivers are actually quite well protected by unions. The problem is that there are too many Korean men and women who are willing to do that job because they are under or un employed.

It will remain that way as long as I keep bumping into people from South Asian countries in my province working in local factories or construction whose jobs should really be done by local Koreans. They are unskilled jobs for less than 2million per month.

I just don't think it is right that a person from another Asian country should be doing a job in a Korean factory for a reasonable wage (more than 1.5 million won per month) when there are unemployed Korean graduates.

Now if you said that the Korean graduates were just not willing to take those jobs that would be fine. But that is not the case, they are not being given the chance. Hyundai and Kia and looking for one month and then petitioning the Governmment by crying "oh we could not find enough willing workers" hen really they didn't try hard enough by bending or changing conditions. Eventually Government relents and within a week you can have 1,000 warm bodies on the ground from South Asia ready to stand in line at the KIA factory for LESS THAN the Korean workers would have wanted anyway.

The Korean companies never will try hard to get Korean grads. The Grads do not really want that job. The company really does not want them. But some grads need just that little bit more convincing and some small companies need just a but more of a hard word from government that there will be no more cheap third world labor to solve all their problems. They have to use Koreans to make things in Korea.


But in the interests of the overall long term economy it is important that you do not sell out wages and living conditions to overseas people at the expense of those who were not born here.

Do you have any sort of proof to back up your claims? The chaebols actually have affirmative action programs where they hire, at least a few, promising high school graduates. They all wash out because their bosses and colleagues won't accept them.

This all really appears to fit some nationalistic agenda or anti-globalism stance you have.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The allure of cheap consumer goods and of house slav...err migrant workers to clean up after us is the manner in which our countries, both adopted and home, will be the authors of their destruction. Greed and sloth, no other way to describe it.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Land reform (still has some ways to go regarding farm land specifically)
2. Historical separation of MNCs from major banking institutions
3. Increasing inward migration (labor and spousal) nearing developed county by-percentage growth rates (not by absolute percentage)
4. Increasing national and regional-level government support for migrants (health, mental health, pre and post natal care)
5. Earlier, more diverse, and more agressively targeted outward FDI in the energy and raw materials markets
6. Earlier and more concentrated effort to bring competition into the medical and pharmaceutical industries
7. Broader reach of FTAs
8. Work share (migrant worker) programs have been institutionalized
9. Well entrenched targeting of 'green energy' industries (wind, solar, smart grids, geo-thermal...)
10. More concerted effort to play leadership roles in global economic governance
11. Regional level competitiveness encouraged and underway

These are just a few things off the top of my head that differentiate the Korean from the Japanese experience. In some areas Korea is still playing catch up ball, for example when it comes to innovation at the small to medium firm levels. The article does address this in part. All in all, after having followed E. Asian economic development for almost 20 years, though, I'd say that Korea has been quite a bit, and quite intelligently, to avoid falling into a Japanese-style economic funk.

The problem with the chaebol is well know and documented. The fact that a leadership transition at Samsung Electronics, for example, puts the company in a precarious situation is no surprise; in fact, this is text-book international organizational behaviour credo when it comes to tall, hierarchal management structures no matter the country of origin.

What the article doesn't tell you is that Samsung has already begun to diversity into completely new areas for development (5, to be exact), and the current chairperson has publicly stated that they'll be dead in the water in 10 years if they stick to the same knitting they've been doing up to now. The failure to move and innovate is what dragged down some of Japan's top conglomerates across a myriad of sectors.

If nothing else, I like it when they pump out an article like that. It draws attention to Korea, and modern Korea at that!
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing for sure, the last 40 years Korea has surprised. If you would have talked to a US solider serving in 1960's Korea and told them in 40 years that Korea would be the 12th largest economy, he would have laughed in your face.

I for one think Korea is pretty much hit it's peak, but wouldn't be surprised if they do move up a few more notches in the economic ladder. Although I'm not as optimistic as some of those Goldman Sachs' projections putting Korea in the top 5 economies in 100 years.
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liveinkorea316



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

South Korea didn't get to the strong position it is in now though importing cheap labor.

It wants to KEEP its position thru importing cheap labor. Very different propositions.

How much of that imported cheap labor is still working in the manufacturing and industrial industries in the West? It works nowadays in cheap service idustries that keeps living standards high for the rich and wages low for the middle class and poor.

If South Korean Chaebol think they need cheap labor then what that really means is that the factories should be moved offshore where the cheap labor is and Korean companies should focus on high value add activities that its citizens can do.

Of if it is happy to pay a slightly higher wage to Koreans to do the job that imported workers were doing and get Koreans out of the unemployment cues then that would be a good start also.
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea realized a long time ago that it cannot compete with China in the cheap labor department and must make higher valud-added items. I remember this one entrepreneur back in 2004 saying within four years, China won't need Korea. Well, it's been six years and China is still behind Korea, though catching up fast.

Believe it or not, all of that advanced education Koreans get might pay off, especially if more Koreans come back to work in their motherland. I'm thinking the science types will be more welcome, like those who can work in stem cell research and biotech, alternative energy sources, eco-friendly machines and the like.

Don't rule out Korea's ability to surprise.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yaya wrote:
Korea realized a long time ago that it cannot compete with China in the cheap labor department and must make higher valud-added items. I remember this one entrepreneur back in 2004 saying within four years, China won't need Korea. Well, it's been six years and China is still behind Korea, though catching up fast.

Believe it or not, all of that advanced education Koreans get might pay off, especially if more Koreans come back to work in their motherland. I'm thinking the science types will be more welcome, like those who can work in stem cell research and biotech, alternative energy sources, eco-friendly machines and the like.

Don't rule out Korea's ability to surprise.

They know it's about adding value, such as in building cruise ships rather that straight-up tankers. The question is can they pull it off. Walking home from work I saw workers replacing tiles on a large building that is less than a year old. Their satellite failed. Getting top-notch quality is no easy proposition.

The strategy to buy foreign companies, such as the European cruise ship builder, may be the way for them to get that quality. Domestically, who knows?
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
The allure of cheap consumer goods and of house slav...err migrant workers to clean up after us is the manner in which our countries, both adopted and home, will be the authors of their destruction. Greed and sloth, no other way to describe it.

The depth of your thought is astonishing. You dig deep, with what, a tin teaspoon?
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yaya wrote:
The writer of that article or the copy editor didn't do a proper check of facts. It's "Li Kai-shing," not "Lee Kai-shing" and Cheonggye Stream, not Cheonggyecheon stream.

The latter indicates a problem in the use of names in Korea like Namdaemun gate (redundant considering that "mun" means gate). It's like saying "How can I get to Seoul-eok Station?"


Don't put your PIN number in an ATM machine, or you might get the HIV virus.

Chai tea. Pizza pie. Chili con carne with meat.

We do this all the time.
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Yaya



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redaxe wrote:
Yaya wrote:
The writer of that article or the copy editor didn't do a proper check of facts. It's "Li Kai-shing," not "Lee Kai-shing" and Cheonggye Stream, not Cheonggyecheon stream.

The latter indicates a problem in the use of names in Korea like Namdaemun gate (redundant considering that "mun" means gate). It's like saying "How can I get to Seoul-eok Station?"


Don't put your PIN number in an ATM machine, or you might get the HIV virus.

Chai tea. Pizza pie. Chili con carne with meat.

We do this all the time.


True, but that's why most of us don't write for The Economist.
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The Great Toad



Joined: 12 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of the many times I have a pleasant discourse with a very cute cafe lass who is working at Angels I U. or Starbuck. The kid will be very happy to speak with me and will say she makes 4,000 or 5,000 won an hour. That is a joke amoutn of cash. On the other hand a government office worker 35 year old said she was banking 4 million a month. So I guess the college girl dreams of finishing and passing the Gov. Worker exam so she can get a real salary. But, I have also met those lasses who tell me they are full time and are not going to college. I assume these 25 year olds will just save money and stay at home with mom and dad and hope to score a male mate who will have the Samsung or government job.

But as someone else said it seems to be the culture of loving at home assists in this ultimate job search. If kids had to move out and get an apatment they would take most any job they could... I guess they would live in one of those Goshewons or something with the low pay they made since they could not afford key money.

Lets face it hough no one - well at least no one with a huge brain like me - wants to work in a factory - well ok welding is fun - I sould see welding ship hulls that would be a entertaining job. But having welded and worked in American factories I can tell you assembly line work is sooooo lame and boring. The noise in the factory is constant and you need earplugs. I do not know why any guy with a uni degree would agree to that if he could crash at home with his mama and get a bit of Cass poket money from Da-da.

Anyhow the whole world economy is all like on interconnected overextended debt. It is only a matter of time until there is a massive world depression and it all becomes a terrible Mad Max movie.
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Menino80



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Economist Article about South Korean Economy Reply with quote

uklathemock wrote:
Binch Lover wrote:
There's quite a good article on South Korea's economy in the Economist this week.

http://www.economist.com/node/21538104

For those who are interested in Korean history and political economy, it's a good read.


South Korea is mimicking Japan's sh%t situation. No immigration. No new-borns. In another 10-15 years, half of Japan's population will be over 65. South Korea will reach this eventually unless drastic change occurs. It's ironic that they follow the country they hate.


Which situation? The one that brought them from a rural devastated economy to one of the wealthiest countries in the world in 50 years? Look at every single developed country in the world, they all have aging issues, some are just worse than others. There's nothing inherent in Japan's system that breeds xenophobia, that was already built in before the new economic system was enacted.
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Menino80



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yaya wrote:
redaxe wrote:
Yaya wrote:
The writer of that article or the copy editor didn't do a proper check of facts. It's "Li Kai-shing," not "Lee Kai-shing" and Cheonggye Stream, not Cheonggyecheon stream.

The latter indicates a problem in the use of names in Korea like Namdaemun gate (redundant considering that "mun" means gate). It's like saying "How can I get to Seoul-eok Station?"


Don't put your PIN number in an ATM machine, or you might get the HIV virus.

Chai tea. Pizza pie. Chili con carne with meat.

We do this all the time.


True, but that's why most of us don't write for The Economist.


Apples to oranges, the example was in the speaker/writer's native language, not an obscure language spoken by less than 100 million people worldwide. I would hope such a pedantic and counterproductive stance would not be editorial policy at the Economist.
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itistime



Joined: 23 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Toad wrote:
This reminds me of the many times I have a pleasant discourse with a very cute cafe lass who is working at Angels I U. or Starbuck. The kid will be very happy to speak with me and will say she makes 4,000 or 5,000 won an hour. That is a joke amoutn of cash. On the other hand a government office worker 35 year old said she was banking 4 million a month. So I guess the college girl dreams of finishing and passing the Gov. Worker exam so she can get a real salary. But, I have also met those lasses who tell me they are full time and are not going to college. I assume these 25 year olds will just save money and stay at home with mom and dad and hope to score a male mate who will have the Samsung or government job.

But as someone else said it seems to be the culture of loving at home assists in this ultimate job search. If kids had to move out and get an apatment they would take most any job they could... I guess they would live in one of those Goshewons or something with the low pay they made since they could not afford key money.

Lets face it hough no one - well at least no one with a huge brain like me - wants to work in a factory - well ok welding is fun - I sould see welding ship hulls that would be a entertaining job. But having welded and worked in American factories I can tell you assembly line work is sooooo lame and boring. The noise in the factory is constant and you need earplugs. I do not know why any guy with a uni degree would agree to that if he could crash at home with his mama and get a bit of Cass poket money from Da-da.

Anyhow the whole world economy is all like on interconnected overextended debt. It is only a matter of time until there is a massive world depression and it all becomes a terrible Mad Max movie.


I have been mildly amused by your latest posts. Thank you for the humor during an otherwise bory week. I have great emotions.
Biting!
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