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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| FaceFaceFace wrote: |
| Munniko wrote: |
| yeah, I wasn't sure that suicide had become a verb, and clicked on this topic originally thinking that it was about the Suicide Girls who are goth/punk pin-up models, which would have been cool. This topic still interesting. |
Same here  |
Me three.
This is like the "Korea's Wasted Youth" thread. Instead of a cheerful post on kids with soju bottles or some cheesy wannabe-punk group, instead we get this crap...
As for music with suicidal themes or whatnot, if I can pull a Michael Bolton and blast gangsta rap featuring lyrics about drive-bys and cop-killing in my car, then if people want to watch a vid that has suicide, hey, whatever floats your boat. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| You haven't addressed this yet. |
That's pretty much the whole basis of my argument.
Can you prove the suicides were ALL individual? They were not influenced from a group act or leader?
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| What's your agenda anyway? Pro-Korean suicide? Anti-statistics? |
My agenda is truth, what is yours? Read an article or something written in a popular magazine and pass it off as truth without analyzing it yourself.
Ironically, some people commit suicide because they do the same, meaning they DON'T DISCERN for themselves. they take what others say as gospel and SPEW SPEW SPEW.
You are doing a great job of that.
| Quote: |
| underlying attitude toward suicide in Korea |
It's not suicide. It is obedience to some group, like voting for a leader/president to tell you how to run your life. The feeling to connect. Until you understand this basic principle, you won't understand the bias the suicide data points represent.
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| Removing this horrible trope of suicide in music videos is a start, but it needs to be culture-wide. |
WELL WELL WELL. What do we have here? Suicide is NOT worldwide, it is only between an individual and themself. One person outside of the culture. Now you are seeing it.
It is NOT suicide. It is the culture, a societal issue. |
Suicide is suicide. You need to understand that. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Munniko wrote: |
| bekinseki wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
Korea needs to look at what its doing to its people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbully_(film)
This is a movie about a girl who contemplates suicide. Oh wait, it isn't Korean.
In this movie, a guy named Neil commits suicide, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Poets_Society
Oh wait, that also isn't a Korean movie.
In this Canadian drama series, Degrassi - episode 2 (season 3, titled "Breakaway"), Fiona is bruised and hit by her boyfriend. She is seen pacing on top of a building close to the edge.
Darn, this one isn't Korean also.
I guess maybe we should all look at what is being broadcast. It's not just Korea. |
Uh, you aren't aware or willing to admit that suicide is an especially serious problem in Korea, and that it has some very strong cultural causes? Just because there is suicide in other countries doesn't negate the fact that Korea has the highest suicide rate in the OECD, which has doubled in the last decade alone.
Also, for that matter, suicide is portrayed much differently in the media in different countries. In the west we have the idea that suicide is contagious, and it's very rare to see any reporting on suicide unless it's really newsworthy, and it will almost never be glamourised like it is here. |
^^
This
the fact that they, along with Japan, have installed walls on their subway systems to prevent jumpers says a lot about suicide problems |
Newsflash, they did this on a few bridges in Canada (suicide prevention barriers).
Suicide is a serious issue and it tends to be more prevalent in certain societies.
Now, if you want a REAL debate, stay out of the murky "suicide is right/wrong" arena and discuss the RIGHT for people to end their own lives the way they see fit. |
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Stephen Ireland
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Koreatimes has some interesting points about group mentality and how it could override an inividuals will for self preservation but it doesn't address two important issues: That confusionism isn't as strong as it once was and that the suicide rate has been increasing in recent years depite the decline in said confusionism.
How do you account for that? |
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BriTunes
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Lolz. The dumbest person on the Internet is posting in this thread, but it wouldn't be right to name names... |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Suicide is suicide. You need to understand that. |
That's an obviously ignorant statement. Suicides happen for all sorts of reasons:
1. Depression
2. Bullying
3. Illness
4. Non-conforming
What do you say about the Buddhist monks who burn themselves or the Kevorkians? Unless you have a religious agenda, not all suicides are the same. Do you really think Steve Jobs died of natural causes just a month after retiring? Mr. "Oh wow, oh wow" was probably on some pretty "wow" stuff to knock him out. He decided his end, and I fully support that. However, I don't support societal pressures to conform.
Suicide is NOT suicide. You need to understand that.
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| Newsflash, they did this on a few bridges in Canada (suicide prevention barriers). |
Ok, nice tidbit, what is that supposed to prove?
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| Suicide is a serious issue and it tends to be more prevalent in certain societies. |
Addressing a society is not the same as addressing an individual with suicidal tendencies. It's like looking at an Alzheimer's patient and just thinking "They forget a lot". There is a lot more that goes on when an individual decides to kill themself as it relates to suicide.
When you have followers committing suicide (assisted homicide?), it's not the suicide that is at issue, it's the condition of conformity.
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| Now, if you want a REAL debate, stay out of the murky "suicide is right/wrong" arena and discuss the RIGHT for people to end their own lives the way they see fit. |
I never said it was right or wrong. You completely missed my point. Saying it is right or wrong is just as dumb as saying where someone in the army should go in order to protect "our" country. That individual should decide for themself, my choice or your choice should have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing until we decide to go.
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That confusionism isn't as strong as it once was and that the suicide rate has been increasing in recent years depite the decline in said confusionism.
How do you account for that? |
I don't know how you measure "confusionism". Milgram's experiment is still alive and kicking. Look at the occupy movement. I fully support being upset with the "1%", but look at all those people in the parks, sitting around for what? Are they waiting for a change? Do they plan on actually meeting someone in those parks to do some action that will affect the 1%?
Right now, everyone is following some hype to be part of the group. Wear a pink ribbon for breast cancer, but how does that actually stop the cells from metastasizing? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| Suicide is suicide. You need to understand that. |
That's an obviously ignorant statement. Suicides happen. |
See, you do understand. And they happen more in Korea. End of story. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreatimes, I was NOT responding to your post my friend. I was responding to another poster...but ok. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| Suicide is suicide. You need to understand that. |
Suicide is NOT suicide. You need to understand that.
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LOL |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| This article is outdated. |
There. I addressed it. From your same link.
Not only that but anybody can edit Wiki and say "See, that proves my point". |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.japantoday.com/category/commentary/view/bare-statistics-mask-human-cost-of-japan%E2%80%99s-high-suicide-rate
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| Japan in 2009 was a busy place � for the Grim Reaper. A National Police Agency report revealed that there were 32,753 suicides in the country last year, exceeding 30,000 for the 12th consecutive year and accounting for 3% of all deaths. Current World Health Organization figures show that of OECD countries, Japan has the second highest suicide rate, at 24.7 per 100,000 people. Only Russians kill themselves at a greater rate. |
The statistics cited on suicide rates are from the WHO which is a more reputable source than an outdated Wiki article open to re-editing by anyone. Says nothing about South Korea. Hmmm... |
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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've always meant to make a webpage about the glorification of suicide but didn't through fears of dummies sueing me.
It can be quite the respectable practice, suicide.
Go samurais! And whatnot- |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
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| This article is outdated. |
There. I addressed it. From your same link.
Not only that but anybody can edit Wiki and say "See, that proves my point". |
Was it modified to increase Korea's 2009 suicide rate? I'm not sure what the problem is that you see.
I would've linked the OECD page but it doesn't allow direct linking. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://www.japantoday.com/category/commentary/view/bare-statistics-mask-human-cost-of-japan%E2%80%99s-high-suicide-rate
| Quote: |
| Japan in 2009 was a busy place � for the Grim Reaper. A National Police Agency report revealed that there were 32,753 suicides in the country last year, exceeding 30,000 for the 12th consecutive year and accounting for 3% of all deaths. Current World Health Organization figures show that of OECD countries, Japan has the second highest suicide rate, at 24.7 per 100,000 people. Only Russians kill themselves at a greater rate. |
The statistics cited on suicide rates are from the WHO which is a more reputable source than an outdated Wiki article open to re-editing by anyone. Says nothing about South Korea. Hmmm... |
Ah, here's the problem. Russia isn't an OECD member.
Here are the suicide rates of OECD members from 2010, according to the OECD Factbook 2010: Economic, Environmental and Social Statistics. Japan has dropped below Hungary and Korea.
GRC 2.9 4.8 1 Greece
MEX 4.3 7.6 1.3 Mexico
ITA 4.8 7.9 2.2 Italy
GBR 6.1 9.7 2.7 United Kingdom
ESP 6.3 10 2.9 Spain
NLD 8.1 11.5 4.9 Netherlands
PRT 8.7 14.6 3.8 Portugal
IRL 8.9 13.7 4 Ireland
DEU 9.1 14.5 4.3 Germany
AUT 9.8 15.7 4.1 Australia
DNK 9.9 15 5.3 Denmark
USA 10.1 16.6 4 United States
CAN 10.2 15.7 4.9 Canada
ISL 10.7 15.3 6.0 Iceland
LUX 10.8 18.4 4.1 Luxembourg
NOR 10.8 16 5.6 Norway
SVK 10.9 20 2.9 Slovak Republic
OECD 11.1 17.6 5.2 OECD Average
SWE 11.3 15.4 7.4 Sweden
CZE 11.4 19.7 3.8 Czech Republic
NZL 12.2 18.8 6 New Zealand
AUT 12.6 21 5.1 Austria
POL 13.2 23.7 3.7 Poland
CHE 14 19.7 8.9 Switzerland
FRA 14.2 21.8 7.3 France
FIN 18 28.1 8.3 Finland
JPN 19.1 28.1 10.4 Japan
HUN 21 36.3 8.4 Hungary
KOR 21.5 32 13.2 Korea
While it's not necessarily a good idea to trust Wikipedia, the same can be said for any journalistic article. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bekinseki wrote: |
While it's not necessarily a good idea to trust Wikipedia, the same can be said for any journalistic article. |
True...however said article was citing the WHO's stats. And the WHO is a reputable and trustworthy organization.
Hmm that OECD page is interesting I'll have to take a look and see if I can find that link. |
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