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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Hey, sorry if I confused you with being a doomer or a peaker or a goldbug. Didn't mean to sound harsh. The Internet is full of those people and they get on my nerves 
As to why people here are anti-live-abroad, or give flak to long-termers, my own opinion is it's because many people aren't really doing this work by choice. We don't like doing it, we want to be doing something else, and our frustrations with the work lead us to have even more trouble than usual with the cultural adjustment issues inherent to living abroad. There are so many threads about this, like the guy who thinks he is turning into an alcoholic living here. If I was doing the work I am trained to do, and like doing, here in Korea I would have a much better attitude towards this country.
That's the thing. I want to like my job, not just endure it for the sake of money and the promise of a few weeks off if I survive winter camp. I don't want to live to work, but I want to like my work. I want to respect it, and I don't respect ESL [sorry, TUM!]. I take a lot [probably too much] of my identity from work, from being a professional. Here, doing this, many days I just feel like a fraud.
So that's the thing. For most kinds of quality, professional jobs you really can't live abroad and do them [people doing stints for big corps or the military excepted]. If you're a lawyer in Dallas, you can't just decide to move to Indonesia to practice. A vet in Buffalo can't just start treating pets in Turkey next week. ESL is one of the only options open to us. And it comes with all its issues--of boredom, of repetitiveness, of pointless drilling, of idiotic textbooks and worthless phrases and crazy co-teachers and clueless students--everywhere, no escape. If you can 'do' ESL and get some fulfillment out of it, I'd say I envy you. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| mmstyle wrote: |
Modernist, I don't mean to come across as condescending toward those who would rather live and work at home at all. When I first left home, I thought I would be back in 2 years-I never expected to meet someone and fall in love while I was here. I try not to come across as condescending in my posts here, and go out of my way to try to be polite on this forum, if you are familiar with my posts (I get ignored a lot, so you might not be  ). If some things changed back home, I would be happy to go home-I miss it. The country itself is beautiful, and it has a lot to recommend it. I don't understand why so many people who are on this board seem so anti-live abroad, when obviously, most of those who are in ESL are living abroad. People who choose to do this long term catch a lot of flack on this board, which just doesn't make sense to me. So, I was just trying to show a different perspective that I think is legit. I guess I'm not very convincing (maybe cuz I don't have any shiny gold).
I have no idea if we will do this long term. Until very recently, we talked about doing this for maybe 2-3 more years, then settling down. A lot of things have converged to make us reconsider our long term plans, but I expect to still go home some day. I'd love to have a house, but I've decided I don't want to have a mortgage to have one.
Draz, I married an amazing guy...the fact that I now have another option for a place to settle down, is a bonus. |
Well if you want a house but do not want a morgage you have a few options.
1- You can save up until you have the cash to buy the house outright. That is tough considering how real estate values tend to grow over the years while your savings may not follow on the same rate.
2- Buy a house now with a decent down payment (back where you want to settle) and RENT IT OUT. Do this right and it will pay for itself.
We did this and paid for our house and building (each of them) in under 10 years. You then have a fully paid property you can move into. If you want to renovate it, you can re-morgage it at a decent rate and pay that pack over a few years.
Note that even if your house is paid, it will cost you in terms of municipal taxes, school taxes (in many places), insurance, up keep....
So while you are younger and living in a place with high savings potential...use it! Buy a property and rent it out while you KEEP SAVING wherever you are.
Thats part of of I meant by giving yoruself options. What you do or don`t do NOW pretty much dictates with you will be able or unable to do later on...
By the way, you can live in the now AND plan mid to long term WHILE living a full life thats not made up of 50 hour work weeks.
Just sayin...
Good luck. |
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mmstyle
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Modernist, ESL isn't my first choice either, but we want to travel for a while. The thing is, what I would really like to do for a living has been mostly off shored and cheapened in my own country, so only a few people back home do it and make a real living from it. My hubby is true teacher, and hopefully he'll be back teaching at uni soon. I feel the same way as you when it comes to my current job, and I feel like we have saved enough to take a chance and move on. I still hope there is somewhere we can both be happy with what we do. If I get a chance to do what I really want to do, then I will consider myself really lucky. Meanwhile, the experiences I get when traveling allow me to pursue some alternate things I really enjoy.
PGHB, thanks. Yeah, I think it will be number 1 or, rental, or number 3. We don't have kids to "leave things to" so I don't worry about building up something for a future generation.
Anyway, I've taken this thread really off track.
What kind of people come to Korea? Category 6 (or is it 7?): The tourist type (number 5?) mixed with those who don't have a timetable for going home. They save some, spend a little, and couch surf with happy family members until they decide to go home. More professional than ESLing backpackers, more long term than the tourists. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
H
That's the thing. I want to like my job, not just endure it for the sake of money and the promise of a few weeks off if I survive winter camp. I don't want to live to work, but I want to like my work. I want to respect it, and I don't respect ESL [sorry, TUM!]. I take a lot [probably too much] of my identity from work, from being a professional. Here, doing this, many days I just feel like a fraud.
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No need to apologize to me...everyone is different. But then may I ask why you stay here?
If I came to hate this job here's what I would do:
(1) Use the remaining time on my contract and contacts back home to line up a job in Canada or at least some decent promising leads.
(2)Finish out my contract. Or if I got a job that started sooner, give notice.
(3) Go home and start anew.
Personally I enjoy what I do and find greater fulfillment in it than I did back home. But as I said above...different strokes for different folks. We only get one shot at this living thing, might as well be happy as much as possible. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: |
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when I read these posts I wonder how many people have actually worked in their own country. There is this idea that a corporate job is good, its not it's bullshit.... I just loved working in the UK for 55+ hours a week and getting everything I made over 40k taxed at more or less 50%. I much rather get 25k not get taxed, work 9 hours a week and get 4 months off.
Basically most ESL'ers have never experienced it and live in this fantasy world where a corporate job is amazing, 90% of the people in those jobs hate it. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Malislamusrex wrote: |
when I read these posts I wonder how many people have actually worked in their own country. There is this idea that a corporate job is good, its not it's bullshit.... I just loved working in the UK for 55+ hours a week and getting everything I made over 40k taxed at more or less 50%. I much rather get 25k not get taxed, work 9 hours a week and get 4 months off.
Basically most ESL'ers have never experienced it and live in this fantasy world where a corporate job is amazing, 90% of the people in those jobs hate it. |
Well, there is much to be said about a lack of experience or a lack of comparatives. This does lead to assumptions and to this idyllic view of "work back home". |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Malislamusrex wrote: |
when I read these posts I wonder how many people have actually worked in their own country. There is this idea that a corporate job is good, its not it's bullshit.... I just loved working in the UK for 55+ hours a week and getting everything I made over 40k taxed at more or less 50%. I much rather get 25k not get taxed, work 9 hours a week and get 4 months off.
Basically most ESL'ers have never experienced it and live in this fantasy world where a corporate job is amazing, 90% of the people in those jobs hate it. |
I think you're a bit jaded here, perhaps because you were in a negative work environment. Lots of people have fulfilling professional work, but you just don't go away for a year or two to "find yourself" after getting mediocre marks in a mediocre degree, come home, and it lands in your lap. At least not for most people, particularly in a downturn economy, but there are sometimes exceptions. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the opposite of what you said.
| silkhighway wrote: |
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
when I read these posts I wonder how many people have actually worked in their own country. There is this idea that a corporate job is good, its not it's bullshit.... I just loved working in the UK for 55+ hours a week and getting everything I made over 40k taxed at more or less 50%. I much rather get 25k not get taxed, work 9 hours a week and get 4 months off.
Basically most ESL'ers have never experienced it and live in this fantasy world where a corporate job is amazing, 90% of the people in those jobs hate it. |
I think you're a bit jaded here, perhaps because you were in a negative work environment. Lots of people have fulfilling professional work, but you just don't go away for a year or two to "find yourself" after getting mediocre marks in a mediocre degree, come home, and it lands in your lap. At least not for most people, particularly in a downturn economy, but there are sometimes exceptions. |
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