|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: Labor dispute will I win? |
 |
|
| To make a long story short, I will sum up the dispute. Basically, my old hagwon is refusing to reimburse my airfare. The recruiting agency is backing him up and saying I agreed he didn't have to pay me back if he signed a letter or release and paid my last paycheck. Both of which he really had to do, at least by contract. I never signed anything except for my last paycheck. He made me sign for it and wrote something like "everything is paid" on the receipt and gave me the LOR. The recruiter found me another job for higher pay and are saying since I am getting more pay, then the airfare is being paid indirectly by my new employer. I think the recruiter made some kind of deal with him but can't prove it. I know if the hagwon fires you within 3 months of hire, they don't have to pay the recruiting fee or something like that. So instead of firing me, they worked out a deal where he wouldn't need to pay my airfare. The guy is still in business doing very well. I tried to negotiate for a lower amount but instead he said I owed him money for staying in his apartment an extra week (while layed off awaiting to start the new job) and phone charges. I told him that I'd take those charges off the money he owes me. I probably should also seek 1 week's pay at 70% of the salary. Do you think I will win this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gorf
Joined: 25 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| There's never any harm in trying! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Labor dispute will I win? |
|
|
| bbunce wrote: |
| To make a long story short, I will sum up the dispute. Basically, my old hagwon is refusing to reimburse my airfare. The recruiting agency is backing him up and saying I agreed he didn't have to pay me back if he signed a letter or release and paid my last paycheck. Both of which he really had to do, at least by contract. I never signed anything except for my last paycheck. He made me sign for it and wrote something like "everything is paid" on the receipt and gave me the LOR. The recruiter found me another job for higher pay and are saying since I am getting more pay, then the airfare is being paid indirectly by my new employer. I think the recruiter made some kind of deal with him but can't prove it. I know if the hagwon fires you within 3 months of hire, they don't have to pay the recruiting fee or something like that. So instead of firing me, they worked out a deal where he wouldn't need to pay my airfare. The guy is still in business doing very well. I tried to negotiate for a lower amount but instead he said I owed him money for staying in his apartment an extra week (while layed off awaiting to start the new job) and phone charges. I told him that I'd take those charges off the money he owes me. I probably should also seek 1 week's pay at 70% of the salary. Do you think I will win this? |
Your story is too short.
How long did you work at your hogwan?
Are you asking about your one-way fare to Korea?
What does your contract say about airfare?
And if you signed a statement that "Everything is Paid," that can be a binding contract, agreement or settlement to a dispute. It meets all the conditions requisite for a valid contract. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I worked for 2 months because he said he was having money trouble. The contract said they would either reimburse me or pay my one-way airfare to Korea and return ticket after contract was completed. We never discussed airfare except I told him he could pay me a month later. The paper I signed was for my paycheck or at least that's what I thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Both of which he really had to do, at least by contract. |
You don't have to give a LOR, and if you aren't going to leave the country then I wouldn't try to collect on the airfare. I wish teachers wouldn't be so greedy.
| Quote: |
| The recruiter found me another job for higher pay and are saying since I am getting more pay, then the airfare is being paid indirectly by my new employer. |
Typical recruiter tactics. They are just trying to look out for the second employer and make sure they have a teacher. It muddies your situation and doesn't mean anything to the base of your angst.
| Quote: |
| Do you think I will win this? |
Anything is possible. Personally, I would just get the LOR and go to the new school. Collect on pension, severance, last pay, and move on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bbunce wrote: |
| I worked for 2 months because he said he was having money trouble. The contract said they would either reimburse me or pay my one-way airfare to Korea and return ticket after contract was completed. We never discussed airfare except I told him he could pay me a month later. The paper I signed was for my paycheck or at least that's what I thought. |
When ontheway asked "What does your contract say?" He wasn't asking for your summary. He wants you to take out your contract and type it out or copy and paste it if you have a digital copy. Otherwise no one can help you.
What EXACTLY does your contract say about airfare? Anything anyone else says about your situation doesn't matter. What matters is what your contract says.
Furthermore, it is my understanding that airfare reimbursement is not usually a labor board dispute. You might need to take him to small claims court. But I might be wrong about that.
And that document you signed that said that everything is paid. Let me guess...it was in Korean? Did you get a copy? Did you have someone you trust translate it before you signed it? What EXACTLY did that document say? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mollayo
Joined: 11 Oct 2010
Location: At the my house
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This is why people should refuse to get reimbursed for their inbound flight. Always have your school pay for it upfront. It saves a lot of headaches. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mollayo wrote: |
| This is why people should refuse to get reimbursed for their inbound flight. Always have your school pay for it upfront. It saves a lot of headaches. |
This is regarding the outbound flight which he doesn't need. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| mollayo wrote: |
| This is why people should refuse to get reimbursed for their inbound flight. Always have your school pay for it upfront. It saves a lot of headaches. |
This is regarding the outbound flight which he doesn't need. |
Clearly the OP is talking about his inbound airfare. Your inability to read continues to amaze me. Nowhere as he mentioned he wants outbound airfare.
That being said, I can understand why a hagwon owner would be hesitant to pay the incoming airfare for a teacher who only worked 2 months. That is why most schools have clauses that if you don't complete 6 months you must pay back or eat the cost of your ticket. That also explains why he made you sign this document that said everything is paid.
Personally, from what you've said so far, I don't think your old boss should pay for the ticket. The ticket is meant for you to use to come to Korea and work at HIS school for a year. If anything he should pay you 2/12th of it. Not eve worth the hassle. You didn't hold up your end of the deal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Clearly the OP is talking about his inbound airfare. Your inability to read continues to amaze me. Nowhere as he mentioned he wants outbound airfare. |
| Quote: |
| The recruiting agency is backing him up and saying I agreed he didn't have to pay me back if he signed a letter or release and paid my last paycheck. |
If he paid the last paycheck, then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| I never signed anything except for my last paycheck. |
If they signed for their last paycheck, then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| He made me sign for it and wrote something like "everything is paid" |
If he had to sign something to indicate "everything is paid" then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| I tried to negotiate for a lower amount but instead he said I owed him money for staying in his apartment an extra week |
If he stayed an extra week, then more than a year has passed.
| Quote: |
| Your inability to read continues to amaze me. Nowhere as he mentioned he wants outbound airfare. |
Your inability to read also continues to amaze me. If it were inbound, then that means he waited a year to collect on it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bbunce wrote: |
| I worked for 2 months because he said he was having money trouble. The contract said they would either reimburse me or pay my one-way airfare to Korea and return ticket after contract was completed. We never discussed airfare except I told him he could pay me a month later. The paper I signed was for my paycheck or at least that's what I thought. |
bbunce,
I missed this post. Why did you work a second month before collecting on airfare? This is a big mistake. You should have been reimbursed for the inbound flight at least before the end of the month. I would not have started working until that was settled personally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Clearly the OP is talking about his inbound airfare. Your inability to read continues to amaze me. Nowhere as he mentioned he wants outbound airfare. |
| Quote: |
| The recruiting agency is backing him up and saying I agreed he didn't have to pay me back if he signed a letter or release and paid my last paycheck. |
If he paid the last paycheck, then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| I never signed anything except for my last paycheck. |
If they signed for their last paycheck, then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| He made me sign for it and wrote something like "everything is paid" |
If he had to sign something to indicate "everything is paid" then 1 year has passed.
Furthermore,
| Quote: |
| I tried to negotiate for a lower amount but instead he said I owed him money for staying in his apartment an extra week |
If he stayed an extra week, then more than a year has passed.
| Quote: |
| Your inability to read continues to amaze me. Nowhere as he mentioned he wants outbound airfare. |
Your inability to read also continues to amaze me. If it were inbound, then that means he waited a year to collect on it. |
Last pay check as in, the last one he received because he quit after working 2 months. No where did he say 2 MORE months. He said 2 months very clearly. Again, you fail at reading. Period. He worked there 2 months and then quit and took a different job. His last pay check was the last one he received for working there. He said he assumed the recruiter was worried about someone who quit prior to working 3 full months. If he worked 14 months like you are incorrectly assuming, then the recruiter wouldn't be worried.
He stayed in the apartment for an extra week between jobs. It doesn't mean after his contract was completed, just after he quit and before he started his new job.
I see, now, you missed his post. Hence, why I still maintain you have a really hard time following along with discussions.
You are right that the OP shouldn't have kept working, or at least put his foot down, about getting his airfare that his contract (supposedly) promised to be reimbursed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think I confused some in my post and my apologies. I only worked for 2 months because the owner claimed he could no longer afford to pay me. Because I was sympathetic, I told him he could take his time to reimburse me for the inbound airfare. This is what it says in the contract:
3.3 Airfare
The employee's one-way economy class or regular class airfare to Korea will be paid by the school. Return airfare to the employee's home country shall be paid by the school upon completion of the 12 month contractual teaching period. Return airfare will not be provided if the employee leaves the school prior to completion of the 12 month teaching period. If the employee terminates the contract for any reason within 6 months, the employee is responsible for reimbursing the school for the cost of the plane ticket to Korea.
The part that says they won't pay if I leave within 6 months could be my biggest problem. However, I did not terminate the contract, the employer did because he couldn't pay so I hope small claims accepts it.
I'll be submitting the claim on Monday and will update how it went. The old hagwon's position is that since I have a new job which pays more then he shouldn't have to pay the airfare. The recruiter is saying the same thing so it might be two against one. I might also go after the lost wages (1 week of being laid off). I'll also find out if he "forgot" to pay the 3.3 tax which was taken out of my pay as required. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Again, you fail at reading. |
And you fail at logic. The original post would represent normally someone seeking an outbound flight. His second post which clarified a situation that is NOT normal was where he left after 2 months.
Regardless if it was 2 or 12 months, he should have insisted on being reimbursed EARLIER. My stance still is the same. He made a BIG mistake. The outcome will be the same.
Missing the second post doesn't change the dynamics of this.
| Quote: |
| If he worked 14 months like you are incorrectly assuming, then the recruiter wouldn't be worried. |
Umm, no, here I'll show you:
"If he stayed an extra week, then more than a year has passed."
It would have been 12 months and 1 week, if we only looked at the original post to figure out their situation. Looks like you are the one with the reading problems, I only missed the post. I didn't even read it, so I what I commented on was sound based on what I read. What you are saying ISN'T sound and you misread my post.
Stop blaming others for something they aren't doing when you yourself are doing it.
| Quote: |
| Hence, why I still maintain you have a really hard time following along with discussions. |
Does it matter? You are the one who can't follow the discussion when you have the facts. I skipped one fact, but it has no bearing on the outcome. The guy made a mistake. He is still out. The outcome is the same for different reasons.
I don't see how your attacking me is going to help to get this guy's airfare back, which normally should have been collected in the first month. Saying 12 months simply exaggerates the situation. I am not saying I knew it was 2 months, but a 10 month difference doesn't mean it is ok to hold off on collecting the airfare. After 1 month to 12 months, the point is the same. A teacher would have waited too long.
That's a transportation fee to get the employer to the country. It should have been reimbursed at the time of arrival or if the teacher naively accepts, 1 month later. If you wait 2 months, forget seeing it. It's not normal to get it after 1 month.
| Quote: |
| You are right that the OP shouldn't have kept working, or at least put his foot down, about getting his airfare that his contract (supposedly) promised to be reimbursed. |
Right, 2 months or 12 months, doesn't matter. The missing information is irrelevant.
PS: Grandmasters don't need to think out all permutations on the chessboard. They only need to prevent the bad ones from occurring. I am not calling myself a grandmaster, but I addressed the original post with the attempt to reach a conclusion that wouldn't need the information provided in the second post. I feel I did that in this case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Again, you fail at reading. |
And you fail at logic. The original post would represent normally someone seeking an outbound flight. His second post which clarified a situation that is NOT normal was where he left after 2 months.
Regardless if it was 2 or 12 months, he should have insisted on being reimbursed EARLIER. My stance still is the same. He made a BIG mistake. The outcome will be the same.
Missing the second post doesn't change the dynamics of this.
| Quote: |
| If he worked 14 months like you are incorrectly assuming, then the recruiter wouldn't be worried. |
Umm, no, here I'll show you:
"If he stayed an extra week, then more than a year has passed."
It would have been 12 months and 1 week, if we only looked at the original post to figure out their situation. Looks like you are the one with the reading problems, I only missed the post. I didn't even read it, so I what I commented on was sound based on what I read. What you are saying ISN'T sound and you misread my post.
Stop blaming others for something they aren't doing when you yourself are doing it.
| Quote: |
| Hence, why I still maintain you have a really hard time following along with discussions. |
Does it matter? You are the one who can't follow the discussion when you have the facts. I skipped one fact, but it has no bearing on the outcome. The guy made a mistake. He is still out. The outcome is the same for different reasons.
I don't see how your attacking me is going to help to get this guy's airfare back, which normally should have been collected in the first month. Saying 12 months simply exaggerates the situation. I am not saying I knew it was 2 months, but a 10 month difference doesn't mean it is ok to hold off on collecting the airfare. After 1 month to 12 months, the point is the same. A teacher would have waited too long.
That's a transportation fee to get the employer to the country. It should have been reimbursed at the time of arrival or if the teacher naively accepts, 1 month later. If you wait 2 months, forget seeing it. It's not normal to get it after 1 month.
| Quote: |
| You are right that the OP shouldn't have kept working, or at least put his foot down, about getting his airfare that his contract (supposedly) promised to be reimbursed. |
Right, 2 months or 12 months, doesn't matter. The missing information is irrelevant.
PS: Grandmasters don't need to think out all permutations on the chessboard. They only need to prevent the bad ones from occurring. I am not calling myself a grandmaster, but I addressed the original post with the attempt to reach a conclusion that wouldn't need the information provided in the second post. I feel I did that in this case. |
How could I fail at logic when I was right?? That you can even say that is another failure in your logic. 
You still don't understand why your point about extra or more months/weeks is totally wrong. Extra/more does not have to mean past the contract term. It could mean after the time in which he was terminated/quit. I'm not going to explain it further to you.
Your first piece of advice was to tell the guy to stop being greedy for his airfare home. He wasn't even asking for his airfare home. This was obvious to me. I used logic. You tried to use logic and came away with the wrong conclusion.
The reason why I continue to call you out, is because you persist on making false assumptions and missing people's posts who are looking for help. Please, follow along with the discussions more accurately. If you can't do that, then don't offer advice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
