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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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If I were sadguy, I would have stayed out of spite.
She can't move on unless you leave Korea? Guess what baybee...  |
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fortysixyou
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| Why doesn't the school let him stay until PROVEN GUILTY? |
What has she accused him of exactly? |
Page 2 first post. |
Yeah, I read page 2 first post twice. I'ts not clear what she accused him of.
She put a picture of him and wrote something bad about him, but I'm still wondering what she said about him that got the rumors spreading like wildfire...? Aren't you? |
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Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| sadguy wrote: |
| Korea claims to be a country that wants be a part of the international community but it's really sad when foreigners are still second class citizens. |
Youre right, they should talk to the tens of thousands of immigrant middle eastern people in the major cities who can only get a job driving taxis.
Or the tens of thousands of them in my country who can only get jobs cleaning Superstore at night.
In my country its the general rule that if you wear a turban, or pray to Allah, and weren't born and raised there that these are the two jobs you can pick from.
And thats just for legal foreigners, Shall we took a look at America's stance on cheap ( off the books) illegal Mexican labor in factories, or thier work conditions or pay?
I can't think of a single first world nation that doesnt treat foreigners differently, ie as LESS than them. You can argue that Korea does it to a stronger degree, perhaps if you supplied some valid stats, but lets not kid ourselevs that every other country in the "international community" is a pedestal for the fair treatment of foreigners.
I understand your need to vent about your situation (heck I just let loose with a venting post and I love Korea in a lot of ways) but as noted before by me and others, nothing you have stated is somthing that couldn't have hapenned to you back home, and as a teacher, what happenned to you is pretty much what would happen to anyone in the care of children.
Its just a simple reality. This is not KOrea out to get you or because Korea is backwards or behind the times (at least in this regard)
I wish you luck, its a crappy situation, but it was the situation that was the cause, not that the situation happenned in Korea, where they don't value the foreigner. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sadguy: Post a blog telling your side of the story. The truth will set you free. You are no longer in Korea. They can't touch you for it. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Well this has never happened to me (29 years in Korea), so it must not be a true story. |
noob
couldn't resist |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Deranged Ranger wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Deranged Ranger wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
@Derangedranger
So in your country unsubstantiated allegations on blogs can get you fired from a school? Allegations of violence against students aside, that is simply not the case. In my country (UK) at least this would get nowhere, even if the teacher in question was not a citizen.
For example a teacher recently was found by students to be moonlighting as a porn star, he didn't lose his job. There was some concern about texts to year 10s but no suggestion of sexual misconduct.
He has also stated that the photo was simply a profile pic so obviously you have not read all his posts in their entirety.
Furthermore to all the other usual suspects who seem to think this is run of the mill behaviour by schools against teachers, without a specific Korean dimension, I challenge you to post comparable examples. |
I was dealing more on the assumption of the picture was somehow scandelous, however look at the number of male teachers who even after being cleared with CLEAR evidence that they didnt touch a student/molest a student, who got thier job back. Its a staggering 0%
A students says "he touched me" that careeer in teaching is done, even when its unsubstantiated, when you are talking about a TEACHER! |
Assume--you make an ass out of u and me. Even Deputy Barney Fife knows that. |
and yet when a student says "he touched me" they ASSUME in every case that the student is telling the truth.
Funny eh?
he mentioned a picture up on his wall and then he got fired. I assumed that the picture was graphic without him clearly stating that it wasn't. Wrong assumption, okay, a afir one yes sir |
Who is they? Even so, no "they" don't. Look how long Sandusky got away with it.
What they often do is look into it because it's their duty to protect the child. But they don't assume the student is telling the truth.
You must like being an ass. |
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Deranged Ranger
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Sandusky was a football caoch not a teacher, there is a minor distinction.
The facts in evidence were not that they assumed the student was lying, its that the school officials were not informed, the coaching staff was and they failed to report it to school officials.
In the Sandusky case the cover up involved people in the ATHLETIC department, as they had a vested interest in the situation ( Sandusky going weakens the "team")
If you are dealing with any educational minded organization, one with a principal and what not who answers to parents and doesnt need to "win", I doubt you can point to a single example of a "teacher" who "got away with it" for years.
As for the ad hominem at the end I will let it slide. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Deranged Ranger wrote: |
Sandusky was a football caoch not a teacher, there is a minor distinction.
The facts in evidence were not that they assumed the student was lying, its that the school officials were not informed, the coaching staff was and they failed to report it to school officials.
In the Sandusky case the cover up involved people in the ATHLETIC department, as they had a vested interest in the situation ( Sandusky going weakens the "team")
If you are dealing with any educational minded organization, one with a principal and what not who answers to parents and doesnt need to "win", I doubt you can point to a single example of a "teacher" who "got away with it" for years.
As for the ad hominem at the end I will let it slide. |
And nothing in your reply refers to your ass-umption that "they" will implicitly and emphatically trust the child to the extent of automatically firing someone without doing their due diligence in investigating the child's accusations. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
In the first case, it seems like an employee at will, which is NOT comparable to sadguy. In the second example, he was not fired, he resigned under duress, which is also different.
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In the second example he was given the choice of being fired or resign. He choose the latter option but it really wasn't a choice.
The point still stands that on nothing more than the word of an ex that these guys lost their jobs. And these were in the West where it was claimed that nothing like this would happen. End of story. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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@Derangedranger
You really need to understand that allegations involving students are different and that even the merest whisper of abuse needs to be taken seriously. There is no indication by the OP that this occurred, so you need to stop your lazy attempt at trying to make out this was anything to do with his students.
Your comments about documents are also completely irrelevant, yes; you are right schools cannot take on faith that you are healthy and have no past convictions. However, a spurious unproven allegation made on a blog by an ex in the aftermath of a breakup is a situation where your word should count for something considering his unblemished work record.
You do understand that this case at no time involved the police or legal proceedings? Therefore any person angry enough could land any E2 in the same 'controversy' and be sacked which according to you is a fair decision.
I know for certain that nothing like this could happen in the UK, foreigner or not, thankfully we do not have medieval labour relations. Obviously NA could be as backward as Korea in this respect but until you post comparable examples we will never know.
BTW I am not being glib if you believe this happens in NA then we don�t have to debate, simply post the examples and prove your point or stop posting. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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So, if an employer in the Uk/Can/US was employing foreign temp workers... and there was a rumour about one of them... a rumour that may very well affect their business, they wouldn't possibly toss them?
Sure, a local that knows the ins and outs might be in a better situation, and a union member might have that going for them, but if they were "just" a foreign worker, I'm guessing this very well could happen to them.
Besides, let's be clear on this, we're taking one side of this. And while we all agree that it sounds like the "just side", we haven't heard the other side at all.
Also, sad guy is not pursuing this. And that's his choice (which I understand), so we have no real idea how the Korean courts would look at this until he decides to fight it.
People have been fired unjustly the world over... and yes, even in the Western world. Spend one day in your local labour relations office and you'll hear a dozen stories. It's not a Korean monopoly. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:41 am Post subject: |
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@Urbanmyth
Are they teachers? Are they at least professionals?
Posters of your ilk suggested this happens all the time and that�s the best you can come up with, hardly end of story. Also neither involved allegations made indirectly.
I am not discounting the possibility that employees in NA are treated as poorly as those in Korea, just that before you can say that you need to provide credible comparable examples. If you were to do that then this discussion could end here.
PS. USA does not equal the 'West' |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
@Urbanmyth
Are they teachers? Are they at least professionals?
Posters of your ilk suggested this happens all the time and that�s the best you can come up with, hardly end of story. Also neither involved allegations made indirectly.
I am not discounting the possibility that employees in NA are treated as poorly as those in Korea, just that before you can say that you need to provide credible comparable examples. If you were to do that then this discussion could end here.
PS. USA does not equal the 'West' |
You are missing the point here. The claim was made that no one in the West would lose their job (not teachers not professionals, NO ONE) over allegations made by an ex. I proved that wrong. This is not to say that Mr. sadguy was right or wrong I am merely correcting another poster's erronous opinion. And I am well aware the USA does not equal the West but it is part of the West. And that's why I included a couple of links to the U.K as well.
| Quote: |
| No-one would lose their job at the word of another ESPECIALLY an ex. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
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@ Captain Korea
People are fired unjustly in the west but not in this way and not in this manner, that is why this case is Korea specific. Also a foreigner recruited to teach french or biology would not be canned because of unproven rubbish on the internet in the UK.
If you disagree prove it. I am not invested in this I will happily concede if you can provide proof.
@Urbanmyth
I have already said quite clearly accusations of abuse involving students are different and have to be taken seriously. To be clear I consider racism towards students a form of abuse.
Both of your links invoved students so are not comparable. |
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