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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Sorry, Ttom, but you are misinformed.
These conferences are required by law. They are held all over Korea every year. They are required of all E2 language teachers of all languages - the others sometimes have separate meetings, sometimes it's a combined event with multiple translations.
Korean hogwan teachers, managers and owners also have required annual meetings - sometimes on the same day, but at a different location.
Public school E2 teachers satisfy the requirement by atttending the annual public school training which satisfies the legal requirement. So, hogwan associations arrange the required meetings for other E2 teachers.
Teachers at schools that are not members of the hogwan association are also required to attend and are sent invitations. The list of teachers comes from the local MOE office. It is not a hogwan association list.
Teachers that are not legally registered will not be on the list and will not be invited, even if their school is a member of the hogwan association.
We have contacted the local MOE about this. It is their requirement. Many years ago, I worked at a hogwan that failed to notify teachers about the meeting so they missed it. The school paid a large fine from the MOE.
If you miss the meeting in your local, you can be required to attend another meeting in a different city, to avoid the fine. If you miss the meeting, you go to the local Education Office MOE to try to explain and get an exemption as well - sometimes this is possible.
Since I have seen the meetings, seen the teachers from other languages at the meetings, and going to separate meetings, seen the Korean meetings, talked to the MOE, seen the letters, experienced the fines, heard the warnings of the addition of negative points to a schools' MOE rating (part of the annual inspection by the local MOE) I can assure you that TTompatz is misinformed on this.
It does appear that in Seoul, the rules have been unenforced for a long time, while in other areas of Korea they are more strictly enforced, but these are the facts.
As we know, the way rules are enforced in Korea varies from place to place, time to time, public official to public official and they are often willing to let people off, especially since these meetings are useless for the most part. But they are required by the Korean government for all E2 teachers annually. |
What?
I worked at a hagwon in Incheon, and never had to go. Would/Should/Could my school be fined?
If you went to the meetings how have you experienced the fines? Were you fined or was your school fined?
How is a school 'rated' by the MOE?
Could you scan one of the letters for us to look at?
What law says that all E2 teachers must annually attend a seminar? No link? Just hearsay from your boss? |
I'm with Mr. ThingsComeAround on this one. Mr.ontheway the last time you told us something was required by law two posters said you were wrong. One of them spoke to the relevant government agency and the other had his friend call.
Here is the thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=212994&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Now I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't work for hakwons. But in the past I have worked for a total of five hakwons and not once ever even heard of these meetings let alone attend one. Many other people have had the same experience.
You make all these announcements about labor law, giving notice...yet when asked for proof of your statements you refuse.
If it is the law it should be simple enough to provide it. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Sorry, Ttom, but you are misinformed.
These conferences are required by law. They are held all over Korea every year. They are required of all E2 language teachers of all languages - the others sometimes have separate meetings, sometimes it's a combined event with multiple translations.
Korean hogwan teachers, managers and owners also have required annual meetings - sometimes on the same day, but at a different location.
Public school E2 teachers satisfy the requirement by atttending the annual public school training which satisfies the legal requirement. So, hogwan associations arrange the required meetings for other E2 teachers.
Teachers at schools that are not members of the hogwan association are also required to attend and are sent invitations. The list of teachers comes from the local MOE office. It is not a hogwan association list.
Teachers that are not legally registered will not be on the list and will not be invited, even if their school is a member of the hogwan association.
We have contacted the local MOE about this. It is their requirement. Many years ago, I worked at a hogwan that failed to notify teachers about the meeting so they missed it. The school paid a large fine from the MOE.
If you miss the meeting in your local, you can be required to attend another meeting in a different city, to avoid the fine. If you miss the meeting, you go to the local Education Office MOE to try to explain and get an exemption as well - sometimes this is possible.
Since I have seen the meetings, seen the teachers from other languages at the meetings, and going to separate meetings, seen the Korean meetings, talked to the MOE, seen the letters, experienced the fines, heard the warnings of the addition of negative points to a schools' MOE rating (part of the annual inspection by the local MOE) I can assure you that TTompatz is misinformed on this.
It does appear that in Seoul, the rules have been unenforced for a long time, while in other areas of Korea they are more strictly enforced, but these are the facts.
As we know, the way rules are enforced in Korea varies from place to place, time to time, public official to public official and they are often willing to let people off, especially since these meetings are useless for the most part. But they are required by the Korean government for all E2 teachers annually. |
What?
I worked at a hagwon in Incheon, and never had to go. Would/Should/Could my school be fined?
If you went to the meetings how have you experienced the fines? Were you fined or was your school fined?
How is a school 'rated' by the MOE?
Could you scan one of the letters for us to look at?
What law says that all E2 teachers must annually attend a seminar? No link? Just hearsay from your boss? |
I'm with Mr. ThingsComeAround on this one. Mr.ontheway the last time you told us something was required by law two posters said you were wrong. One of them spoke to the relevant government agency and the other had his friend call.
Here is the thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=212994&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Now I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't work for hakwons. But in the past I have worked for a total of five hakwons and not once ever even heard of these meetings let alone attend one. Many other people have had the same experience.
You make all these announcements about labor law, giving notice...yet when asked for proof of your statements you refuse.
If it is the law it should be simple enough to provide it. |
I have verified this with the MOE in several cities. It is the law. They do not have to provide statute numbers, nor do I, to make it a law. I never asked the Immigration office to prove their requirements either. They say we need a CBC, so I believe them.
I have verified this again today with a direct call to the MOE. It is a legally required meeting and not a hogwan association meeting. Why would hogwans want to make extra rules for themselves? Looney idea.
Now, some teachers don't have to go. Public school teachers have their own meetings. Some areas of Korea are disorganized and the MOE doesn't hold the required meetings, so you don't have to go. Some teachers are not legally registered as teachers witht the local education office, so they don't have to go. Some teachers start work after the annual meeting for one year, and since the dates vary, they might finish their contracts before the next one. And, as happened to me, some schools forget to notify their teachers, so the school has to pay a fine, but the teachers may never go.
Call your local MOE. They will explain it to you.
These are legally required meetings.
You must attend.
If you fail to attend, it will mean a warning or fines for the teacher and/or your school. Multiple offenses can cause the school to be closed for a period of days as a penalty. The teacher who fails to go and causes the penalty can be fired for damaging the school. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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http://english.mest.go.kr/enMain.do
http://moe.go.kr/
02-6222-6060
Anyone else want to check for themselves?
The people I spoke to at the Ministry of Education / Ministry of Education, Science and Technology (national level) knew nothing about it.
The policy division of Gyeonggi provincial education office - GPOE (who would make it mandatory at the provincial level) know nothing about it.
If someone wants to take a trip out to the government complex and ask in person, perhaps get a different answer then:
http://english.mest.go.kr/site/images/en/c1/location.gif
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:09 am Post subject: |
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ontheway is a troll, ignore him
if tom says it aint so, then believe him, the guy hasn't been wrong yet.
btw, i'm a univ teacher on an e2 and we dont have to go to these things and we dont have any other sort of meetings besides our departmental stuff. nor do any other univ teacher i know with an e2 at other univs. said they've had to go
so i call bullshit on this |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
ontheway is a troll, ignore him
if tom says it aint so, then believe him, the guy hasn't been wrong yet.
btw, i'm a univ teacher on an e2 and we dont have to go to these things and we dont have any other sort of meetings besides our departmental stuff. nor do any other univ teacher i know with an e2 at other univs. said they've had to go
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Ttompatz has been wrong on numerous occasions. This is another one. He doesn't have enough sources of information and thinks too highly of himself.
Public schools and universities are in charge of their own training meetings. These are required for all languages for E2s at hogwans.
Seoul and Incheon are just catching up to this requirement.
This has been confirmed in numerous cities around Korea.
Try this phone number for one of them and get it verified yourself: 033-259-1500. |
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banjois
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Go if you like. You don't have to. My boss isn't compelling us to do so . . . and she would know. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Just had this news dropped on our laps today. Am not amused.
Guess there won't be a "How to resolve a labor dispute with your employer" presentation. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Is this Seoul specific, or does it include satellite cities as well? I work in Anyang and my school hasn't said a thing. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway is a liar. If you are planning on going, be surprised when the committee holders try to indoctrinate you into their church, and waste your time. |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| ontheway is a liar. If you are planning on going, be surprised when the committee holders try to indoctrinate you into their church, and waste your time. |
I will be REALLY PISSED if that happens. |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Well...I am here and it is a total waste of time. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| Well...I am here and it is a total waste of time. |
Am dying a slow death. What? Not impressed with the Immi man?  |
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PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| Well...I am here and it is a total waste of time. |
Am dying a slow death. What? Not impressed with the Immi man? |
To be fair, the lady from UCLA was interesting. However, too many people asked too many stupid questions. If they could have shortened it into an hour or so, it would have been perfect. The poor immigration guy tried his best. |
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Calla728
Joined: 25 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: Didn't go, didn't get in trouble |
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I just wanted to post this for the people who they will try to trick into going next year.
I knew this meeting wasn't mandatory from the get go. It was being held by an association not immigration, not the Korean government. They scared people into thinking it was mandatory by having someone from immigration there to explain the E-2 visa process. Thank you but I already have an E-2 visa. There as something listed in the announcement about it being mandatory passed on some laws blah, blah, blah. Yet in another printing laws changed to rules and it was clear these were the associations laws/rules not the Korean government.
I tried in vain to convince some of my co-workers to just skip the whole thing. I knew the only person I could get in trouble from was my hagwon director. Trying to be a good employee I decided to just get up and go to the stupid seminar with the intention of leaving early. I arrived with my registration form which my school had filled out. Hmmm the registration form did not have my alien registration number, my visa number or my passport number on it. Seems strange if this was required. I hand my paper over to one of the people checking in, she asked for no form of ID so in theory I could have paid someone to go sit at the meeting for me. She tells me to bring back my form, I had to ask her where and she says to here. I didn't mean to be rude and I realize this girl was just doing her job but I had to laugh in her face and said "that isn't happening." I promptly walked out the door and never returned.
Immigration has not come knocking down my door, they have not revoked my visa and my Director has not been informed (which was actually the only thing I thought might happen). They didn't even ask for the form I was "suppose" to get back after the seminar.
I have friends who work for the same hagwon chain but at different branches some were informed and some were not. The seminar room could have maybe held 500 people. I'm pretty sure there are more than 500 English Hagwon teachers in Seoul.
If someone has actually gotten in trouble for not attending the meeting I would love to hear about it. |
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