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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure what all the suspense was about to begin with.
In a country that hosts US military bases, what Uncle Sam wants Uncle Sam gets.
And as for oppositional government...in a consumerist society, they're always going to come up short. Who's going to hold out for a cause at the end of the day when there's a buck to be made? Certainly not the bigwigs who hold the reigns of power.
Unless you're prepared to lay it all out on the line and clean house, its the US way or the highway, my friend. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| And Captain Corea, I haven't seen any poll figures for support of the FTA but it wouldn't surprise me if a majority supported it as there's been a virtual meida blackout of any opposition to it. Journalists who speak out against the FTA are sacked by editors and postings against it onNaver and Daum are deleted, thanks to the chaebol-friendly government and their friends in the media. |
Odd.
I've seen lots of articles and statements against it in the media. Heck, the new mayor decided that it was his job to speak out against it and that was covered by the msm.
I don't think there's been any shortage of coverage regarding the opposition towards it. If anything, I think the media has been too kind to the DP on this...seeing as they were the ones who originated it. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| You mean the FTA that the Left MADE? That one?? That same one?? |
Modified by the Grand National Party.
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| And as for my supposedly mocking you - I'm calling you out. The last thread we had a discussion in, you said I was going to be killed in the streets all because I asked you to back up your claims. |
Calling me out is a bad idea for a person like you who seems to love the Korea Times or the Korean Hereld.... or Donga, Chosun, or Joongang. 5 conservative newspapers that automatically favor this current conservative government.
You're very lynch-able just by the fact that you read conservative newspapers of this country.
I really can't take you seriously anymore. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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1. Go ahead and list the modifications made by the GNP to the FTA...with sources.
2. So you figure I'm worth lynching because I don't agree with your position? WTF is that about? That is seriously messed up. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| 1. Go ahead and list the modifications made by the GNP to the FTA...with sources. |
Does ISD ring any bells to you?
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| 2. So you figure I'm worth lynching because I don't agree with your position? WTF is that about? That is seriously messed up. |
You don't agree with the 2040.... That's for sure. 
Go ahead and ridicule me all you want. Please do. You know that I'm right and you are dead afraid to admit it.  |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| And Captain Corea, I haven't seen any poll figures for support of the FTA but it wouldn't surprise me if a majority supported it as there's been a virtual meida blackout of any opposition to it. Journalists who speak out against the FTA are sacked by editors and postings against it onNaver and Daum are deleted, thanks to the chaebol-friendly government and their friends in the media. |
Odd.
I've seen lots of articles and statements against it in the media. Heck, the new mayor decided that it was his job to speak out against it and that was covered by the msm.
I don't think there's been any shortage of coverage regarding the opposition towards it. If anything, I think the media has been too kind to the DP on this...seeing as they were the ones who originated it. |
If you think there is any real press freedom in this country you are very much mistaken.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,KOR,,4e9bec29c,0.html
| Quote: |
| Since Lee's inauguration, former presidential aides and advisers have been appointed to key positions at a number of major media companies over the objections of journalists who have sought to maintain those broadcasters' editorial independence. Under the Lee administration, approximately 160 journalists have been penalized for writing critical reports about government policies, as well as for their roles in advocating for press freedom since 2008. At the end of 2010, eight journalists remained dismissed from their positions at the YTN station and the public Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation (MBC) network for their participation in similar acts. The Seoul District Court ruled in November 2009 that the dismissals were an abuse of management's disciplinary discretion. The court ordered YTN to reinstate six of its employees, but the station has failed to comply. |
Did the DP initiate the FTA negotiations? ... Yes.
Do the majority of the Korean population support it? ... Yes
Does that make it right? ... No
I would like to see you actually address my claims that the FTA will not benefit the majority of people in Korea in the long term, rather than just engage in partisan politicking. |
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SMOE NSET
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know where I can read a final draft of the trade agreement? The only one I can find was the proposed agreement in 2010:
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/139259.pdf
Was wondering if this is the final draft they just signed or if there were revisions to it?
And to the poster that said there was a media blackout of the signing, you are not looking very hard. It has been well publicized in blogs, Naver/Daum, etc. |
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whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| My Korean friends are all kinds of upset about this. From what I understand it's not just that it passed (although many were against it), it's the manner in which is was railroaded through. A friend of mine explained that the very recent history of dictatorship here is fueling a lot of the anger. They just felt like there was no discussion at all, just like back 25 years ago. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| 1. Go ahead and list the modifications made by the GNP to the FTA...with sources. |
Does ISD ring any bells to you? |
It does, and I think it's a non-issue. But that being said, mind showing me where LMB brought that ino play vs it NOT being in the original agreement?
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
| And Captain Corea, I haven't seen any poll figures for support of the FTA but it wouldn't surprise me if a majority supported it as there's been a virtual meida blackout of any opposition to it. Journalists who speak out against the FTA are sacked by editors and postings against it onNaver and Daum are deleted, thanks to the chaebol-friendly government and their friends in the media. |
Odd.
I've seen lots of articles and statements against it in the media. Heck, the new mayor decided that it was his job to speak out against it and that was covered by the msm.
I don't think there's been any shortage of coverage regarding the opposition towards it. If anything, I think the media has been too kind to the DP on this...seeing as they were the ones who originated it. |
If you think there is any real press freedom in this country you are very much mistaken.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,KOR,,4e9bec29c,0.html
| Quote: |
| Since Lee's inauguration, former presidential aides and advisers have been appointed to key positions at a number of major media companies over the objections of journalists who have sought to maintain those broadcasters' editorial independence. Under the Lee administration, approximately 160 journalists have been penalized for writing critical reports about government policies, as well as for their roles in advocating for press freedom since 2008. At the end of 2010, eight journalists remained dismissed from their positions at the YTN station and the public Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation (MBC) network for their participation in similar acts. The Seoul District Court ruled in November 2009 that the dismissals were an abuse of management's disciplinary discretion. The court ordered YTN to reinstate six of its employees, but the station has failed to comply. |
Did the DP initiate the FTA negotiations? ... Yes.
Do the majority of the Korean population support it? ... Yes
Does that make it right? ... No
I would like to see you actually address my claims that the FTA will not benefit the majority of people in Korea in the long term, rather than just engage in partisan politicking. |
1. Freedom of the press is not a new issue here. Noh and his administration tried to silence those who they believed were "damaging reunification"
But your claim was that the mainstream media in Korea did not give voice to criticisms of the FTA. I see that as false. I've read about those criticisms in the MSM here...and didn't need to go to the Hanky to find it.
2. Enjoy your debate about the FTA all you want. I'm not an economist, so I'm not all that interested in it much beyond me hoping consumer prices go down. There's obviously discord over the results of FTAs, and I thnk it's a valid discussion. It's just not my area of expertise.
Keep in mind though that it was the DP that initiated this FTA, and now they've switched positions on it. THAT is what I find hilarious. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| You're very lynch-able just by the fact that you read conservative newspapers of this country. |
Seriously, you've got to stop saying things like this just because someone doesn't agree with you. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
If you think there is any real press freedom in this country you are very much mistaken.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,KOR,,4e9bec29c,0.html
| Quote: |
| Since Lee's inauguration, former presidential aides and advisers have been appointed to key positions at a number of major media companies over the objections of journalists who have sought to maintain those broadcasters' editorial independence. Under the Lee administration, approximately 160 journalists have been penalized for writing critical reports about government policies, as well as for their roles in advocating for press freedom since 2008. At the end of 2010, eight journalists remained dismissed from their positions at the YTN station and the public Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation (MBC) network for their participation in similar acts. The Seoul District Court ruled in November 2009 that the dismissals were an abuse of management's disciplinary discretion. The court ordered YTN to reinstate six of its employees, but the station has failed to comply. |
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As my grandfather who is a South Korean Korean War vet said: What's the point of defending democracy when the president right now is killing the war vet funds, ransacked a group of leftist newspaper companies, and defends the previous dictatorships? And yet I voted for this (insert bad word) in 2007. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Bottom line: the parliament is temporarily suspended right now. This is a very bad news for Lee Myeong-bak. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Fat_Elvis wrote: |
If you think there is any real press freedom in this country you are very much mistaken.
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,KOR,,4e9bec29c,0.html
| Quote: |
| Since Lee's inauguration, former presidential aides and advisers have been appointed to key positions at a number of major media companies over the objections of journalists who have sought to maintain those broadcasters' editorial independence. Under the Lee administration, approximately 160 journalists have been penalized for writing critical reports about government policies, as well as for their roles in advocating for press freedom since 2008. At the end of 2010, eight journalists remained dismissed from their positions at the YTN station and the public Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation (MBC) network for their participation in similar acts. The Seoul District Court ruled in November 2009 that the dismissals were an abuse of management's disciplinary discretion. The court ordered YTN to reinstate six of its employees, but the station has failed to comply. |
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As my grandfather who is a South Korean Korean War vet said: What's the point of defending democracy when the president right now is killing the war vet funds, ransacked a group of leftist newspaper companies, and defends the previous dictatorships? And yet I voted for this (insert bad word) in 2007. |
Interesting that he mentions democracy - i see it as the height of arrogance to claim democracy and then refuse a democratic vote. I also see it as an affront to democracy when lawmakers use violence and weapons to disrupt a democratic vote.
I'm glad that your grandfather fought for this country and its democracy, but lets be clear on some things...
Can you back up any of your claims? I've asked you to do this before, and you got obscene with me. You say that he's 'Ransacked newspapers' - ok, where? Also, I'd like you to show how he's killing the war vets funds. also, how's he defending dictatorships - I'd love to see actual quotes.
You've done this before - made claims and then never backed them up - please back up these. I'm actually curious to see the ACTUAL quotes.
One thing that your grandfather may want to remember when he's cursing LMB's name is that in 2007 he had a choice - and very few people thought that Chung Dong Young would have made a better president.
| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Bottom line: the parliament is temporarily suspended right now. This is a very bad news for Lee Myeong-bak. |
Perhaps they should do their job and actually vote on the issues being tabled. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Here's a simple idea - if you're a law maker, vote on the laws in front of you. Vote your conscious, or the views of your constituents... or abstain.. but why the need to use weapons and the like??
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2944540&cloc=joongangdaily|home|top
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| Before the floor vote could take place, the main chamber briefly fell into chaos after DLP Representative Kim Sun-dong opened a tear gas canister on the floor and shook it at the speaker�s podium, forcing Vice Speaker Chung Ui-hwa, a Grand National, to vacate the seat. The tear gas attack was a first for Korean politics. |
we saw this a few years back when some "lawmakers" used an axe to batter down a door.
IMO, anyone who uses violence in the assembly needs to be stripped of their responsibilities and privileges and have charges brought against them - regardless of party. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Ah, c'mon guys, don't get in such a huff, u know it's not really about the politicians, don't u? 
Arguing over this is like arguing over what decisions a manager at a local branch of McDonald's makes. |
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