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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I agree with Kuros's first post: things are starting to spiral out of control.
Glenn Greenwald has a good post up on Salon about UC-Davis:
The roots of the UC-Davis pepper-spraying http://www.salon.com/2011/11/20/the_roots_of_the_uc_davis_pepper_spraying/
Greenwald makes several points, but the one I'd like to focus on is this: The intent and effect of such abuse is that it renders those guaranteed freedoms meaningless. If a population becomes bullied or intimidated out of exercising rights offered on paper, those rights effectively cease to exist. Every time the citizenry watches peaceful protesters getting pepper-sprayed � or hears that an Occupy protester suffered brain damage and almost died after being shot in the skull with a rubber bullet � many become increasingly fearful of participating in this citizen movement, and also become fearful in general of exercising their rights in a way that is bothersome or threatening to those in power...The genius of this approach is how insidious its effects are: because the rights continue to be offered on paper, the citizenry continues to believe it is free. They believe that they are free to do everything they choose to do, because they have been �persuaded� � through fear and intimidation � to passively accept the status quo. As Rosa Luxemburg so perfectly put it: �Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.� Someone who sits at home and never protests or effectively challenges power factions will not realize that their rights of speech and assembly have been effectively eroded because they never seek to exercise those rights; it�s only when we see steadfast, courageous resistance from the likes of these UC-Davis students is this erosion of rights manifest.
Pervasive police abuses and intimidation tactics applied to peaceful protesters � pepper-spray, assault rifles, tasers, tear gas and the rest � not only harm their victims but also the relationship of the citizenry to the government and the set of core political rights. Implanting fear of authorities in the heart of the citizenry is a far more effective means of tyranny than overtly denying rights. That�s exactly what incidents like this are intended to achieve. Overzealous prosecution of those who engage in peaceful political protest (which we�ve seen more and more of over the last several years) as well as rampant secrecy and the sprawling Surveillance State are the close cousins of excessive police force in both intent and effect: they are all about deterring meaningful challenges to those in power through the exercise of basic rights. Rights are so much more effectively destroyed by bullying a citizenry out of wanting to exercise them than any other means.
If people are not free to peacefully express their views, then only radicals will be left to do so. That is quite possibly the goal of some of these people in authority using extreme methods to quell the protests. It is one way to discredit a movement and ultimately shut it down. Manufacturing 'consent' indeed.
At least as disturbing is this: At the root of all of those views is the classic authoritarian mindset: reflexive support for authority, contempt for those who challenge them, and a blind faith in their unilateral, unchecked decisions regarding who is Bad and deserves state-issued punishment.
Nixon made a great deal of political hay out of his 'law and order' stance. In those days it wasn't just a TV franchise.
A curious irony: the Tea Party went from attacking Wall Street to allying with the GOP in Congress to protect Wall Street and now Fox is focused on attacking Occupy Wall Street. I think I need to get out my old copy of Eric Hoffer and re-read 'The True Believer' again. |
So UC-Davis campus cops are part of some Authoritarian conspiracy to keep people down?
Or maybe the guy is just an abusive nutjob.... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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One of the problems with this UC-Davis issue is that it is distracting attention from the original issue, economic inequality. Police abuse is certainly an important issue, but it should not be allowed to change the basic conversation. I was happy to find Josh Marshall was thinking along the same lines today: the core message about economic inequality is being overwhelmed by a distinct story about (depending on your perspective) street violence and police brutality or excessive militarization of crowd control.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/11/changing_memes.php?ref=fpblg |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pepper spray can be dangerous
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The more worrisome effects have to do with inhalation � and by some reports, California university police officers deliberately put OC spray down protestors throats. Capsaicins inflame the airways, causing swelling and restriction. And this means that pepper sprays pose a genuine risk to people with asthma and other respiratory conditions ...
... Pepper spray use has been suspected of contributing to a number of deaths that occurred in police custody. In mid-1990s, the U.S. Department of Justice cited nearly 70 fatalities linked to pepper-spray use, following on a 1995 report compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union of California. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Sickening!!! Not just at UC Davis but across the country widespread police abuses.
But this is the goal to make the thugs show themselves to be thugs. To paraphrase Ghandi: first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
People are waking up!! Most realize that the kids at Davis were not bums or hippies they were middle class "good" kids who were assaulted by employees of the school that their parents money allows it to operate. But this is how you get change. I believe this will invigorate the OWS movement . But the movement needs to stay non-violent. That picture of Pike is iconic like the Selma police siccing the dogs on freedom marchers in the 60's. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But the movement needs to stay non-violent. |
I agree. The video of the chancellor undergoing that walk of shame in absolute silence was very powerful. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Matt Taibbi: UC Davis Pepper-Spray Incident Reveals Weakness Up Top
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[T]he person who commits fraud to obtain food stamps goes to jail, while the banker who commits fraud for a million-dollar bonus does not. Or if you accept aid in the form of Section-8 housing, the state may insist on its right to conduct warrantless "compliance check" searches of your home at any time � but if you take billions in bailout aid, you do not even have to open your books to the taxpayer who is the de facto owner of your company.
The state wants to retain the power to make these subjective decisions, because being allowed to selectively enforce the law effectively means they have despotic power. And who wants to lose that?
The UC Davis incident crystallized all of this in one horrifying image. Anyone who commits violence against a defenseless person is lost. And the powers that be in this country are lost. They�ve been going down this road for years now, and they no longer stand for anything. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Since the police chief and two of the officers have been placed on leave...that's hardly "despotic power". |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Since the police chief and two of the officers have been placed on leave...that's hardly "despotic power". |
It depends on what kind of leave. If it's very brief to just placate protesters than it is meaningless. They should be fired. I would love to see assault charges filed, that would be a great precedent to set. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Since the police chief and two of the officers have been placed on leave...that's hardly "despotic power". |
It depends on what kind of leave. If it's very brief to just placate protesters than it is meaningless. They should be fired. I would love to see assault charges filed, that would be a great precedent to set. |
I believe it is paid leave. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Since the police chief and two of the officers have been placed on leave...that's hardly "despotic power". |
Neither is paid leave quite accountability. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Since the police chief and two of the officers have been placed on leave...that's hardly "despotic power". |
Neither is paid leave quite accountability. |
But that might be what the union contract stipulates. I have a hunch the two of them won't be working there much longer. Ditto with the police chief. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Protests the world over always get hijacked to some extent by agitators, villians and anarchists. It only takes one or two incidents to give conservatives the perfect excuse to ignore the wider issues at hand. People want change, that's all. |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
Protests the world over always get hijacked to some extent by agitators, villians and anarchists. It only takes one or two incidents to give conservatives the perfect excuse to ignore the wider issues at hand. People want change, that's all. |
And let's not forget the gov't provocateurs who pose as them. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
Protests the world over always get hijacked to some extent by agitators, villians and anarchists. It only takes one or two incidents to give conservatives the perfect excuse to ignore the wider issues at hand. People want change, that's all. |
And let's not forget the gov't provocateurs who pose as them. |
I don't agree with that. |
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