Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sirius black]

Dismiss China at your own peril. Meteoric rise to second largest econonmy in such a very very short time. They are buying or stealing our technology. Their stealth plane and the ability to send nukes to Hawaii and western America soon if not already is evidence of that. They are sending plane loads of students to our best unis. Especially the hiigh tech, math and engineering schools of Cal Tech, MIT, Chicago, etc.
They are funding research at these and other unis under the proviso they have first access to any new discoveries and technology. They are allowing tech companies to enter their market only if they get access to technology.

One can simply not dismiss the number 2 economy. Also, America is not helping its own cause. Two huge events happened in the first decade of this century that showed just about no crisis will make us get our act together. 911 was used as an excuse to bring us two wars, a deficit and an erosion of civil liberies. The '08 financial crisis showed that our government is bought and paid for by the powers that be since they were the ones that got bailed out and the people that were suffering were left to fend for themselves.

We have been replaced by some of our traditional biggest trade partners by China. Korea, Japan, India, Brazil. We used to be their biggest trade partners now its China.

China won't have to do much to catch us. We're declining on our own to make us an easy target.

My guess is India will replace us as the check against China. Will China have recessions, etc? Sure. So did we while we were surging forward. We had some doozies. Near collapses along the way in the late 1800s and a big 'un in 1907. Not to mention the depression. As it stands now its a matter of when not if China will be the world's biggest economy.

[Kuros]

[travel zen]

Remember they hype about Japan over a decade ago ??

This is just bigger hype. I don't know how you can't see that already.

The West swallows every type of new fashon, new fad. Keeps them from being too bored.

[sirius black]

[Unposter]

I also would not undestimate our government's ability to scare us:

If it is not Russia, Communism and the Red Scare, it is Y2K, Social Security, Retirement, Obama Death Panels, Terrorists, Sadam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and now China.

It is always something.

Personally, I think many American companies are making a lot of money in China or selling cheap Chinese goods in the U.S. as well as the U.S. Government benefiting from the Chinese buy up of dollars and treasury bonds.

The most dangerous thing about China is their slave labor. It is destroying the American middle class.

[rollo]

Oh yes the Tang dynasty. When the truly significant advancement of taxing the cooking utensils of the peasant was invented . Truly a glorious time especially for the thousands of slave.

But yeah the big China scare is a joke. I lived in a village where the biggest danger was not auto traffic but the water buffalo.

In the Tang dynasty a few thousand lived in luxury while the vast majority lived in unbelievable poverty. nothing changes.

In the 60 famine the party bosses hoarded grain until the price was high enough then made a fortune. While millions starved kindly old Mao said" If this continues we will all drive Rolls Royces" Nothing changes

I saw in area in Guiyang, mostly mud brick houses, people plowing with buffalo, but the housing for the party leaders first class. Interesting to see the district leader tooling around in his new range rover. nOTHING CHANGES.

The tang emperor kept a few pet scholars to write about the glories of his reign. Nothing changes.

[Nowhere Man]

Yay! A meaty thread.

[rgil627il]

[rollo]

Good post RGI. I agree with everything you wrote. You can see the best and the brightest in china , not in the Universities or offices but in the factories and construction sites. There is no means of advancement unless you are born into a rich family or a "party" family. The mediocrity of the ruling class has always been China's weakness. China is a simmering pot, there is a strong current of discontent. But no one wants turmoil, this is the longest period of stability for China in almost 200 years. No civil wars, growing economy, no foreign intervention, but it is not enough. The really sad thing is that instead of loosening up the government is cracking down.

I think it was Sir Robert Hart who said" No westerner can imagine how the Chinese want to be ruled" they are a difficult people to rule and how they prefer to be ruled also seems mysterious.

[sirius black]

Japan has been suffering stagnation for quite a while and were still the number 2 economy the whole time. Germany, UK, no one else surpassed them. They may not have usurped the U.S. as the biggest economy but they didn't go away either.

China is now the 2nd and are pulling away quckly from Japan and getting closer to America. If its being argued that they will never catch the U.S. it can be argued both ways. However, if its being argued they'll fail and not even stay number 2, hmmm it seems a bit more farfetched. Do they have problems? Sure. Tons of them. So did America in its rise. It seems some on this forum have this glossy view of America in its history when it became the world's biggest economy. America had a huge gap in the rich and poor. Massive amounts of corrption in local, state and federal government (Tammany Hall, the Grant adminstiration, at least another administration, Chicago ward politics, hell, a national election-JFK was probably stolent). The rich and powerful bought off police and politicians as well. America went through a civil war and came very close to economic collapse a few times in the 1800s as well as in the 20th century (1907 panic).

China may go through such similar things as well. Furthermore its not like America is doing anything to stay ahead of China. The country is getting worse. Mired in party politics, our goverment controlled by big corporations and special interest. With Homeland Security and the Patriots Act, which government is being oppressive? Sounds like both are and America is getting worse. China has been opening up more and more while America, especially since 911 has been heading in the other direction.

China may implode one day but its not evident right now and I believe some of you dismissing China are doing so partially if not mostly out of western bias and pride. All this talk from the Republican candidates as forcing the Chinese to do this an that is pure unadulterated campaign rhetoric. They'll come in and eventually kiss azz as Biden did on the tour. Some of you have this skewed view of American power. Its waning. All the talk of denying China the Olympics because of human rights violations Tibet, etc. went no where. They flexed their power and got whatever the hell they wanted. They had numerous countries scared to attend the Nobel Peace prize. American power was centralized on the east coast as well for many decades and the rest of the country was 2nd fiddle. China is going through the same process. Lots of similarities between their rise and ours that are ignored. America was build on slave and cheap labor. Pretty much ever nation in history that ruled its era was built on the backs of slave and/or cheap labor.

Learn mandarin is my suggestion.

[rollo]

Well said Black! I do not think anyone should write off China. I have my doubts about the sustainability of the economy or the government but they are a strong people who know how to overcome adversity. Probably the aging of China will slow the economy down a bit and failure to invest in people by upgrading social programs will certainly handicap them. I think the boom is over but they are still a force in the world and will remain one. The government should become more democratic over time at least this is what everyone counts on. Remember Mao closed the Universities in the 70's and that generation did not get the benefit of education , theyve's had to learn on the fly and i think some of the oppression is insecurity based on self doubt. China deserves a place in the world. One of the great cultures and people who have given the world so much.

[The Floating World]

rollo - for the ingnoranti like myself could you explain what 'so much' exactly China has given the world?

Not meant as a flame btw, just curious.

cheers.

tfw

[rollo]

I would off the top of my head say that the Chinese opened up Europe to the "other". The creation of the trade routes , known as the silk road was made possible by the creation of a Chinese- Mongol state that extended through central Asia and the middle east. The Chinese always welcomed trade. Inventions like gunpowder, printing were transmitted to the WEst from China. The rise of Europe is closely tied to contact with the Chinese.