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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: |
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1. Competition: a decentralisation of political and economic life, which created the launch pad for both nation states and capitalism.
2. Science: a way of understanding and ultimately changing the natural world, which gave the West (among other things) a major military advantage over the Rest.
3. Property rights: the rule of law as a means of protecting private owners and peacefully resolving disputes between them, which formed the basis for the most stable form of representative government.
4. Medicine: a branch of science that allowed a major improvement in health and life expectancy, beginning in Western societies, but also in their colonies.
5. The consumer society: a mode of material living in which the production and purchase of clothing and other consumer goods play a central economic role, and without which the Industrial Revolution would have been unsustainable.
6. The work ethic: a moral framework and mode of activity derivable from (among other sources) Protestant Christianity, which provides the glue for the dynamic and potentially unstable society created by apps 1 to
5.
According to Niall Ferguson these are the 6 reasons why the West dominates the globle.
I'd also add a few more reasons like:
7. Free Speach: a basic culture of discussion beginning back to the ancient Greeks and progressing to a point where we are now.
8. Winning mentality: Dominating the globe for the past 500 years gives your culture a sense of confidence.
9. The Hollywood Effect: the greatest entertainment over the past 100 years and still to this day comes from America. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1. Competition: a decentralisation of political and economic life, which created the launch pad for both nation states and capitalism. |
Absolutely, Europe had a multitude of nations that were competing and struggling for survival and all the urgency of innovation that that brought.
| Quote: |
| Medicine: a branch of science that allowed a major improvement in health and life expectancy, beginning in Western societies, but also in their colonies |
Not so sure about this one. Things like inoculations and medical research were mostly in the Middle East and Asia. I'd say western medicine only really took off in the 1870s, by which point the die was already cast.
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| The work ethic: a moral framework and mode of activity derivable from (among other sources) Protestant Christianity |
Again not so sure about this. While Germans and English are renowned for their work ethic, so are Chinese and Japanese.
I agree that the Protestant ethic was a major factor, but more as an accelerator, not a causal factor.
I would like to add a few more
1. Jews. In spite of the West's best attempts to repeatedly kill them and treat them like garbage. The Jews persisted and made MASSIVE contributions to Western Civ.
2. Black People. Despite the West's best attempt to treat them like garbage, they held on to their own culture and developed their own music which was assimilated by Western culture.
3. The desire to treat the rest of the people of the world as existing for the benefit of them.
Now this is not unique to the West, but one reason it dominates the globe is because of this impulse.
All the great things about the West and why it reigns are true, but one must take into account the full balance of the matter.
And I've posted this quote before...
We think that we are a wholly superior people � if we�d been anything like as superior as we think we are, we would not have fought that war. But since we did fight it, we have to make it the greatest war of all times. And our generals were the greatest generals of all time. It�s very American to do that. - Shelby Foote.
I think that that can be said of those whose egos puff up too much over this whole "Western" (or Eastern or Korean or Religious) thing.
If we were as great as we think we were and are, we would not have done the many awful things we have done in our past. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Medicine: a branch of science that allowed a major improvement in health and life expectancy, beginning in Western societies, but also in their colonies |
Not so sure about this one. Things like inoculations and medical research were mostly in the Middle East and Asia. I'd say western medicine only really took off in the 1870s, by which point the die was already cast. |
The die was hardly cast!
Innoculations? Who preceded Louis Pasure in impact and importance. Pasteur is widely regarded as the single most important figure in the history of medicine.
Smallpox was handeled by Edward Jenner who introduced the technique of vaccination.
Furthermore...
Who discovered microbes before Antony Van Leeuwenhoek?
Who discovered anesthesis prior to William T. G. Morton?
Did an Arab or Asian discover penicillin instead of Alexander Flemming?
The circulation of blood and the function of the heart was discovered by the English physician William Harvey.
You'd likely die in surgury if it wasn't for the anticeptic measures introduced by Joseph Lister.
X-Rays? Discovered by the German Wilhelm Conrad Rontgen.
The contraceptive pill? The American Gregory Pincus.
DNA? Crick and Watson.
I could add a few more examples, but that would be overkill 
Why do you think doctors from around the world require English skills? Simply because most of the literature and vocabulary was developed by Westerners.
Before the 1800s medicine was a backwards realm. Modern medicine has been dominated by Europeans and Americans.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The work ethic: a moral framework and mode of activity derivable from (among other sources) Protestant Christianity |
Again not so sure about this. While Germans and English are renowned for their work ethic, so are Chinese and Japanese.
I agree that the Protestant ethic was a major factor, but more as an accelerator, not a causal factor. |
I agree with this.
I'm not saying Westerners are superior because of their race or any nonesense like that.
Nevertheless, the West developed more of what they had then anyother civilization on the planet. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The die was hardly cast!
Innoculations? Who preceded Louis Pasure in impact and importance. Pasteur is widely regarded as the single most important figure in the history of medicine.
Smallpox was handeled by Edward Jenner who introduced the technique of vaccination.
Furthermore... |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine
| Quote: |
| Variolation was also practiced throughout the latter half of the 17th century by physicians in Turkey, Persia, and Africa. In 1714 and 1716 two reports of the Turkish method of inoculation were made to the Royal Society in England, by Emmanuel Timoni, a doctor affiliated with the British Embassy in Constantinople,[7] and Giacomo Pylarini. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu, wife of the British ambassador to Ottoman Constantinople, is widely credited with introducing the process to Great Britain in 1721. Source material tells us on Montagu; "When Lady Mary was in the Ottoman Empire, she discovered the local practice of inoculation against smallpox called variolation."[citation needed] The procedure had been performed on her son and daughter, aged 5 and 4 respectively. They both recovered quickly. In 1721, an epidemic of smallpox hit London and left the British Royal Family in fear.[7] Reading of Lady Wortley Montagu�s efforts, they wanted to use inoculation on themselves. Doctors told them that it was a dangerous procedure, so they decided to try it on other people first. The test subjects they used were condemned prisoners. The doctors inoculated the prisoners and all of them recovered in a couple of weeks. So assured, the British royal family inoculated themselves and reassured the English people that it was safe. |
Sounds to me like if they had listened to the British doctors nothing would have been done, but those Turks seemed to have a clue about medicine...
Doesn't that suggest that Westerners improved upon the initial advances?
Western culture did not develop in a vacuum. Much as say, the Japanese and Koreans are great copiers now, the Europeans were the original great copiers. And you know what? Great for them. They took basic principles and turned them into extraordinary things.
It's like Eli Whitney and the cotton gin. Cotton gins have been around for centuries, but Whitney made it well. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: |
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All scientific discoveries are built upon other scientific discoveries, but tell me another civilization who has made world changing breakthroughs than the West.
So while the printing press was developed in the East, it was Guttenberg and the culture of the West which really propelled the technology.
It's the same with inoculation.
Tell me another culture that has done more for modern medicine than the West?
Your notion that the die was already cast is still ridiculous. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
All scientific discoveries are built upon other scientific discoveries, but tell me another civilization who has made world changing breakthroughs than the West.
So while the printing press was developed in the East, it was Guttenberg and the culture of the West which really propelled the technology.
It's the same with inoculation.
Tell me another culture that has done more for modern medicine than the West?
Your notion that the die was already cast is still ridiculous. |
I think you mistook what I meant by the die already being cast.
I meant that medicine did not make the West great. The die of the West being great was already cast when those medical innovations occurred.
And again Western civ has been great, but if it truly was as great as some of us believe, it would not have done the many awful, awful things it has done throughout its history. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
And again Western civ has been great, but if it truly was as great as some of us believe, it would not have done the many awful, awful things it has done throughout its history. |
agreed |
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BananaBan
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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so, a hybridization of culture!
amazing! |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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So American tv and films don't recreate and steal from other cultures?
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jaj
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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See this discussion is getting interesting.
Wanted to mention in response to Steelrails posting about black music being a distinctive part of Western identity that, in my opinion, it's not black music but the black Civil Rights movement that has had the greatest impact. It influenced legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and the Immigration Act of 1965 which would be responsible for quotas being lifted on non-European immigrants entering the United states. The Civil Rights movement also shaped Western identity and attitudes and set the foundation for broader inclusivity of minorities, most notably recently Gay people.
Funny thing, when I posted this, I wasn't concerned with the influence the U.S. has on Korea. I was thinking that, as the United States grapples with its current financial and social collapse and tries to recreate itself, and subsequently looks to Asian tiger economies for ideas (President Obama has already referred to Korean students as being model students and chastised America for having gotten lazy), that South Korea will become a model -- since so much of it is derived from friendly American influences.
Considering the South Koreans use hiring practices that are abhorrent by Western EOE standards and basically implement Jim Crow type policies in regards to housing, as well as systematically deny entrance to nightlife venues and spas to people who are the "wrong " race -- I'm shocked at the close partnership they've already forged with the U.S. and predict that notions so important to Western culture such as creativity, intellectual property and social equality will take a back seat to Eastern pragmatism and economic power. That, in our desperation to be functional again, Korea will set the pace... |
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BananaBan
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
So American tv and films don't recreate and steal from other cultures?
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no, not at all. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| BananaBan wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
So American tv and films don't recreate and steal from other cultures?
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no, not at all. |
Uh, you're trying sarcasm right?
Otherwise you're way out of your depth and need to go find a thread about picking your toenails.
Jean Paul Goddard even made a film which was a statement against American tv and filmakers stealing other countries stories and show formatts re-packaging them with little to no acknowledgement. I could make a list a mile long right here of films and primetime shows released in the last ten years in the US, that were re-makes or ripp offs of foriegn fiilms and shows, but I'd rather you took a few baby steps towards doing the research for yourself, if you're really interested  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| BananaBan wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
So American tv and films don't recreate and steal from other cultures?
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no, not at all. |
Uh, you're trying sarcasm right?
Otherwise you're way out of your depth and need to go find a thread about picking your toenails.
Jean Paul Goddard even made a film which was a statement against American tv and filmakers stealing other countries stories and show formatts re-packaging them with little to no acknowledgement. I could make a list a mile long right here of films and primetime shows released in the last ten years in the US, that were re-makes or ripp offs of foriegn fiilms and shows, but I'd rather you took a few baby steps towards doing the research for yourself, if you're really interested |
I think I speak for everyone here when I say nobody is interested. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Which, Kuros is an indication of the head in the sand policy you espouse over in the ce forum, and we both know you're being a big baby and posting the above as I'm shooting down your half baked knowledge and assertions on fos over there.
Hey, whatever. |
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