|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: Is there a law about getting a break after teaching... |
 |
|
a certain amount of hours?
Just curious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nope. They can make you teach 24 hours straight, provided it is in your contract. If it says 6 teaching hours per day or 30 hours per week, you may have to teach straight for 6 hours a day. I think this is fairly standard with Hagwons.. Some of them have dinner breaks, some don't.. Mine doesn't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ah, so no universal law? Nothing from the labor board? Hmm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cincynate wrote: |
| Nope. They can make you teach 24 hours straight, provided it is in your contract. If it says 6 teaching hours per day or 30 hours per week, you may have to teach straight for 6 hours a day. I think this is fairly standard with Hagwons.. Some of them have dinner breaks, some don't.. Mine doesn't. |
No. Not straight if you mean one right after the other But...provided that you have 5-10 minute breaks in between classes, that may meet the standards.
By labor law you are permitted a half hour break after working 4 hours and a full hour break after 8. But those are continuous hours (working in a factory/office) unlike teaching where you have a short break in between classes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I see.
Thanks for the information.
Cheers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
Thanks for the sage advice, idiot.
I gave you no implications that I was overworked.
I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
Thanks for the sage advice, idiot.
I gave you no implications that I was overworked.
I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
This is what the LSA says about recess:
Working Hours and Recess
Article 50 (Working Hours)
(1) Working hours per week shall not exceed forty hours
excluding recess hours.
(2) Working hours per day shall not exceed eight hours
excluding recess hours.
(With some exceptions that you can read about if you want, but 99% chance they won't apply to you)
And
Article 54 (Recess Hours)
(1) An employer shall allow a recess period of more than
30 minutes for every 4 working hours and more than 1 hour
for every 8 working hours during the working hours.
(2) A recess period may be freely used by workers.
And
Article 93 (Preparation and Filing of Rules of Employment)
An employer ordinarily employing ten workers or more
shall prepare the rules of employment concerning matters
described in any of the following subparagraphs and file it with
the Minister of Employment and Labor. If any amendments to
the rules of employment occurs, the same procedures shall also
be followed: <Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
1. matters pertaining to the starting and finishing time of
work, recess hours, holidays, leaves and shifts;
There are a few other things, but they most likely won't apply to you. (Nursing recess, OT recess, etc...) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
I am not trolling, I just don't see what you would do with a law in this case. If you fight it, then you would be expending more time to pursue a remedy. Wouldn't it make more sense to just leave and find another school?
I did this in February. My previous school had mostly Korean students, and they went to Korea for the holidays. At the time there were only 2 teachers hired. We would teach any student still coming longer classes in order to get our hours in. However, when the other students started coming back from the winter holiday, the school refused to lower the hours or pay overtime. I packed up and left.
Is there a law on how many pages you have to teach per class? No, but I am sure both sides have some unwritten expectations. A whole unit might not be beneficial or possible, yet, 1 page is mostly likely not enough.
This is merely what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to attack your wisdom. I simply don't know what I would do if I knew of a law that stated for example they could make you work 6 classes in a row. If there was such a law and I didn't want to work 6 classes in a row, then I would get up and leave.
Likewise, if they made you work 7 and you showed them this hypothetical 6 class rule, then they could make you teach the maximum with 6 class increments. This could definitely backfire. For me, I try to have the school schedule 3-4 classes in a block/shift with one small break if the school doesn't need me to teach. This way they can stretch out my overall availability. I do one or two of these a day. I found 7 classes a day to be the limit if I am doing most of the talking. The way my current school has classes, no teacher at this high school (Chinese or myself) teaches more than 3 in a row without some kind of break.
My concern is mostly on availability, the number of hours outside the actual teaching time that is wasted away just waiting for the next class.
Is there a law which states a maximum for availability? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
Thanks for the sage advice, idiot.
I gave you no implications that I was overworked.
I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
Koreatimes seems to have an aversion to contractual obligations and labor law, instead choosing to rely on gut instinct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
If your schedule is 2pm to 10pm, that is your work schedule You are working 8 hours. It doesn't matter if you only teach 5 classes (or any arbitrary number of classes) during that time. When you are at work, you are working. Teaching, planning, making materials, grading, meetings, reflecting, conferencing, phone calls, professional development, etc..All of this is technically work. Most schools state a limit of teaching hours in the contract.
But that is not a limit on work hours. It is not teaching hours plus "availability time" (whatever that is). It is teaching hours plus non teaching related duties, unless your boss just wants you to sit around being available...
If you were teaching more hours than stated in your contract, and your contract says you get extra pay for those hours but your school didn't pay you, than you have a right to file a grievance with the labor board to be compensated. (better of evidence though) Or you could quit and decide it is not worth it for you. Also a viable option.
If your boss says that you have free time during time you are not directly teaching, than that is your recess time (you get minimum 30 minutes, more if he wants to give it to you) and time to get everything else done you need to get done if you want to go home. If there is too much work to complete in that time, log it, get evidence, and bring it up to your boss and work out an arrangement, if you can't come to an agreement, take it to the labor board and they will arbitrate.
If your school has more than 10 employees normally, than your boss should have some policy/procedure in place and registered with the labor board for when your recess will be, that he determines (his choice not yours...provided he is giving it to you, otherwise, you are within your right to file a complaint). You must get at least 30 minutes of time if your schedule is 2-10. That makes 7.5 hours working because your 30 minute recess does not count towards your work hour total in terms of calculating recess time. (Regardless if you are getting paid for recess or not).
The law for how many pages you should teach is that you follow the directions of your supervisor. Provided he isn't asking you to do something illegal, that contradicts the terms of your contract and/or that violates your rights under the LSA, than you should follow his directions. If his directions are impossible and counterproductive (teaching an entire unit in 40 minutes), do your best, document problems and bring it up to your supervisor. If you can't come to an agreement on how to do it better and your inability to complete the impossible workload prescribed has threatened your job, than quit or file a complaint with evidence.
Last edited by jrwhite82 on Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
Thanks for the sage advice, idiot.
I gave you no implications that I was overworked.
I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
This is what the LSA says about recess:
Working Hours and Recess
Article 50 (Working Hours)
(1) Working hours per week shall not exceed forty hours
excluding recess hours.
(2) Working hours per day shall not exceed eight hours
excluding recess hours.
(With some exceptions that you can read about if you want, but 99% chance they won't apply to you)
And
Article 54 (Recess Hours)
(1) An employer shall allow a recess period of more than
30 minutes for every 4 working hours and more than 1 hour
for every 8 working hours during the working hours.
(2) A recess period may be freely used by workers.
And
Article 93 (Preparation and Filing of Rules of Employment)
An employer ordinarily employing ten workers or more
shall prepare the rules of employment concerning matters
described in any of the following subparagraphs and file it with
the Minister of Employment and Labor. If any amendments to
the rules of employment occurs, the same procedures shall also
be followed: <Amended by Act No. 10339, Jun. 4, 2010>
1. matters pertaining to the starting and finishing time of
work, recess hours, holidays, leaves and shifts;
There are a few other things, but they most likely won't apply to you. (Nursing recess, OT recess, etc...) |
Thank you!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickBateman
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st Street
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
I am not trolling, I just don't see what you would do with a law in this case. If you fight it, then you would be expending more time to pursue a remedy. Wouldn't it make more sense to just leave and find another school?
I did this in February. My previous school had mostly Korean students, and they went to Korea for the holidays. At the time there were only 2 teachers hired. We would teach any student still coming longer classes in order to get our hours in. However, when the other students started coming back from the winter holiday, the school refused to lower the hours or pay overtime. I packed up and left.
Is there a law on how many pages you have to teach per class? No, but I am sure both sides have some unwritten expectations. A whole unit might not be beneficial or possible, yet, 1 page is mostly likely not enough.
This is merely what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to attack your wisdom. I simply don't know what I would do if I knew of a law that stated for example they could make you work 6 classes in a row. If there was such a law and I didn't want to work 6 classes in a row, then I would get up and leave.
Likewise, if they made you work 7 and you showed them this hypothetical 6 class rule, then they could make you teach the maximum with 6 class increments. This could definitely backfire. For me, I try to have the school schedule 3-4 classes in a block/shift with one small break if the school doesn't need me to teach. This way they can stretch out my overall availability. I do one or two of these a day. I found 7 classes a day to be the limit if I am doing most of the talking. The way my current school has classes, no teacher at this high school (Chinese or myself) teaches more than 3 in a row without some kind of break.
My concern is mostly on availability, the number of hours outside the actual teaching time that is wasted away just waiting for the next class.
Is there a law which states a maximum for availability? |
I apologize for calling you an idiot.
Your initial post just seemed like the typical reply in this forum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
| PatrickBateman wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| You don't need a law to apply common sense. If you are being overworked, leave. If you are wrong, you won't find work. |
Thanks for the sage advice, idiot.
I gave you no implications that I was overworked.
I asked a simple question and got a simple reply. If you're going to do nothing but troll, take it elsewhere. |
Koreatimes seems to have an aversion to contractual obligations and labor law, instead choosing to rely on gut instinct. |
Actually, what I said was FAR from gut instinct. Enforcing law and gut instinct are closer. If you feel wronged and you sue it is you against a school. Unless you do a class action suit, which I wonder how that would work in Korea, this gut instinct could happen just because you are pissed at your boss. Nothing stops you from taking legal action.
Compare that with moving on to another school. If you move on to another school, and this works out, then what you are doing is working with people that are treating you fairly.
I have an aversion to taking legal action when there are other remedies which are quicker, cheaper, and can keep you working. Often times this includes walking away from a job with a letter of release. I have been successful (lucky?) to face all my bad employers and end on a positive note. They recognized what they were doing, and they recognized I disagreed with their decisions. If there are other teachers that agree with them more than me, then they are better off hiring one of those teachers to replace me. If no other teacher agrees with them, then the school is left without a teacher. That is a greater blow than trying to enforce the way you see things through the courts (probably due to gut instinct).
Let the people speak in volumes through their actions.
Last edited by koreatimes on Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| At this hagwon and the one I worked at before this, the only breaks are the ones you get switching rooms. At this one, I'm always in the same room so there are no breaks. It's an adult hagwon though so even if I did have breaks, I'd probably just sit and talk to the students anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
