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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Is that a surprise? I would prefer a foreign Korean teacher who has mastered the language him/herself to a native speaker who hasn't had to go through the process of learning Korean as a foreign language. |
And how many of those are there around teaching English?
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| and he was like "I don't know why they couldn't just explain it like you did, it makes so much more sense." I'm sure many Koreans feel the same way about English. |
Funny, the Korean adults I teach say the same thing to me. Remembering all the rubbish they were taught by Korean teachers at Middle and High school. It works both ways. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| First of all the Koreans teaching english are trained teachers. . |
Yet the vast majority that I've met and worked with cannot speak or write properly.
They also use way too much Korean in the classroom. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
Yet the vast majority that I've met and worked with cannot speak or write properly.
They also use way too much Korean in the classroom. |
Seriously. I've had arguments with korean "English teachers" when I was a kid over vocab definitions. I was amazed at how they would get such simple things wrong. They would of course yell at me for questioning their authority but all they had to do was admit they were wrong and look in a dictionary. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Most of the other FTs here I know aren't real teachers but seem to take their job seriously and I imagine if their coteachers are using them effectively are probably doing a good job
I have a feeling the younger Korean English teachers are going to be effective teachers on their own because they often seem to hang around with foreigners and are enthusiastic about English. I expect they'll be a lot better than the older English teachers currently teaching. But I can also see that pattern reversing if we're all booted out of the country |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Is that a surprise? I would prefer a foreign Korean teacher who has mastered the language him/herself to a native speaker who hasn't had to go through the process of learning Korean as a foreign language. |
And how many of those are there around teaching English?
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You're right, there are probably not a whole lot outside the university level - still, I was just saying I understand why that would be their preference.
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| Quote: |
| and he was like "I don't know why they couldn't just explain it like you did, it makes so much more sense." I'm sure many Koreans feel the same way about English. |
Funny, the Korean adults I teach say the same thing to me. Remembering all the rubbish they were taught by Korean teachers at Middle and High school. It works both ways. |
The Korean adults' basis of comparison is not the same as my friend's - I'm not surprised you are a lot better English teacher than a bunch of middle-aged Koreans who have never been abroad or had a real conversation with a foreigner. My friend was studying at the most highly regarded Korean language program in the country, and I was able to get him to grips with certain concepts that his teachers had done a wonderful job of confusing him on. Likewise, Koreans who learned English to a high level as adults could very possibly offer insight that you or I would have a harder time relating to. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Koreans who learned English to a high level as adults could very possibly offer insight that you or I would have a harder time relating to. |
I don't get this. From what I gather your friend was at a low level of Korean and needed your help, probably because he was in a class situation and couldn't get 1-1 assistance, because his tutors' level of English wasn't good enough to explain it simply or his Korean wasn't up to receiving a simple explanation in Korean. You were more effective because you spoke English, not because you had learned Korean to a high level. You only had to be at a higher level than your friend. If Koreans are at a high enough level themselves to be able to understand explanations about grammar and the like in English in my experience, they'd far rather be taught by a properly trained native speaker than a properly trained Korean. If they had to choose between an untrained native speaker and a trained Korean or they were at such a low level that they couldn't understand explanations in L2 well, their choice would be less obvious. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Some people need lessons on statistics.
| crescent wrote: |
Satisfaction= fun
Needed= reduce fear
Only about half of the parents said FTs were EFFECTIVE. |
Nope. Only about half of parents said the PLACEMENT was effective. Difference there.
In addition, surveys are usually given scales for people to voice their opinion. Without the actual survey results, we don't know the extent of the information they offer. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
NETs aren't being used effectively in the classroom. In many cases, we are just tokens there for the kids' amusement. What educational golas can you expect to achieve in classes of 30+ students that only have one lesson per week with the NET? I believe we should be used almost exclusively with the better motivated students and those that show an active interest in learning English, and help them as much as we can.
Also, the co-teachers and schools need to take more responsibility and incorporate us into their lesson plans, rather than using us entertainment for the students or an excuse to to take a break. |
Good idea but the flip side of this would be that those NETS would then need to be trained and qualified in order to be able to deliver effective lessons....its not a one side thing. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Who here would want to learn Korean from a white guy? |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I learned basic chinese from an English person. To me it didn't make much difference except the native speakers knew better about what was in common usage and also pronunciation was better. But as a basic learner it was good and she was able to translate and explain better.
Try learning Korean from a Korean person who CANNOT SPEAK ANY ENGLISH and that would be a fairer comparison for you.
Many people would often choose the American or Australian person who can speak Korean well because they can translate tricky grammar. Then move onto a native speaker when their Korean improves.
Obviously the best is a Native speaker who can speak the language of the learner but that is not always the case. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| Salaries are going up in China.. |
Eh, not that much, still a lot of low paying jobs. Some jobs pay a reasonable salary. Some ask a lot for what they pay. Weird thing is the range of salaries. Some jobs ads post things like salary between 6000 and 12000 yuan depending on blah blah blah, and the like. You can guess which one the actual pay might be closer to. Many offers are negotiable though. A lot of employers are still trying to sell the old line of how cheap it is and how far the cash goes, and so on. It isn't really true unless you do nothing or live in the sticks. Then you might leave after a year with a grand total of a few grand in the bank. Yippee.
Demand is still high I guess, but more foreigners are showing up.
Cost of living is definitely going up though.
Much more on all this on the China forums of course. |
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SoylaMBPolymath
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| Who here would want to learn Korean from a white guy? |
If he were an individual with an extensive education (a master's, at minimum, possibly a doctorate), was fluent in the language, and perhaps had time living in Korea, I would have no problem learning "Korean from a white guy".
In high school and university I learned Spanish from "white people" (I am one half Mexican American on my mother's side, so it wasn't my first exposure to the Spanish language), and they were remarkably effective instructors with marked education in the discipline at hand. By your measure (and unfortunately the measure of Korean Immigration) an individual who wanted to learn English from, say, Vladimir Nabokov, would not be permitted to do so because he was born in Russia. This, even though he is thought by many to have been one of the most incredible English prose stylists of his day, taught in many fine universities, and if Wikipedia is to be believed (I don't always) apparently spoke English before he spoke Russian!
But with respect to the subject matter in the posted article, I must agree with the students and disagree with the parents. While it may be true that foreigners are important in assisting students overcome a "fear" of foreigners, a foreign teacher is not in the least bit beneficial to most students so long as the standards for "teaching" remain so low. A BA should still have some currency, but it is an unfortunate reality that a bachelor's degree is not by any means indicative of one having the mettle to become an effective teacher, especially when a significant portion of candidates hasn't any work experience to speak of, and this is to say nothing of the fact that most foreign teachers are here for a year and that's that. Let's be honest, Korea is not an easy place to be. Still, the system is not exactly designed to encourage long-term commitments.
I have had many days where I am fairly certain that I haven't had any impact on my students' ability to speak English, especially when they won't even engage me in simple conversation or utter more than one word responses, or spend all class talking instead of listening to me. It can be quite demoralizing. For reasons I cannot fathom my students are terrified of speaking with me. If it would assist Korean students in actually acquiring knowledge of the English language I think it would be for the best that the Korean government focus on increasing the fluency of its English teachers, but with the understanding that they are to increase their time spent speaking English. The fact that English is a "required" subject in Korea yet is spoken by so few with any aplomb should be of concern to the educators and policymakers alike. My experience thus far has been that the best English speakers are those who have either a) spent time abroad, or b) are learning from their church (I am not a religious person, so I haven't any opinions about the latter). Otherwise, even though most of my students have studied English since elementary school, most of them are at a loss and have no grasp of even the most basic pronunciation or grammar principles (Teacher, what mean noun?).
Still, I am grateful for my time here and hope that I continue to have more good days than bad and that I can do something, however small, to help a student every now and then. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| I think a lot of comes down to context. Why are you learning the language? Where are you learning it? There's no one-size fits all solution here. Preferring one style of teaching over another does not mean it is more effective, depending on what your goals are. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| young kts may speak well, but the hagwons will always want the real thing. most ppl prefering a korean are the same line that korea is full of korean things. |
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strange_brew
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
NETs aren't being used effectively in the classroom. In many cases, we are just tokens there for the kids' amusement. What educational golas can you expect to achieve in classes of 30+ students that only have one lesson per week with the NET? I believe we should be used almost exclusively with the better motivated students and those that show an active interest in learning English, and help them as much as we can.
Also, the co-teachers and schools need to take more responsibility and incorporate us into their lesson plans, rather than using us entertainment for the students or an excuse to to take a break. |
This.
I have pointed out to my school that we could be much better utilised if we taught the ones who wanted to come to the classes and were motivated. Then we could spend more than one class a week with them, and with smaller classes. Make it an elective. It would probably reduce jobs, but, it would be far more effective. |
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