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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: What do you think about the Etiquette Campaigns? |
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While I would love it if Koreans walked on one side, didn't bump into people and generally didn't act like they're the only person in the world, the campaign ads I see for better etiquette irk me a bit.
What I don't like is that manners and etiquette are a part of culture and you can't really force people to adopt culture. Too many changes in Korea are top-down implementations sort of pushed on to the people from the authorities, while it should be a natural change. Putting up posters and blasting commercials everywhere won't really make people less rude when they can just tune it out. Even if did work, who are they to say what is rude and what's not? What standard are they using?
Even the stuff I agree with shouldn't be forced down people's throats and not everybody is going to agree with what is good manners. For example, I see an ad that states that public show of affection is bad along with talking loudly on your cell phone. Personally I don't give a damn if a couple kisses in public. It may be uncomfortable to look at sometimes but they aren't directly bothering me like an ajuma who is physically pushing me.
The thing that bothers me the most is the effort against merchants who sell stuff in the subways. Don't get me wrong, they are annoying when they start screaming at everybody to buy their stuff. But the constant TV commercials, the ads that are broadcast on the loudspeaker, and over abundance of posters everywhere on the subway is just as annoying if not more. Then you had the obnoxious seizure-inducing holographic ads in the subway tunnels and Pepsi ads plastered on every inch of the subway cars a couple years ago. If it's wrong for a guy to verbally market his crap, it should be wrong for big corporations to shove their crap down our throats when we just want a peaceful ride to work. I guess difference is that corporations can pay for their intrusion while the merchants can't.
Sometimes they can't even make up their minds. A few years ago I got a lot of flak from Koreans I knew because I stood still on the left side of the escalator. But now, it's bad manners to not stand still.
What I'm worried about is that this "evolution" of etiquette in Korea will turn out to be a mess of Korean and Western manners being combined in order to not offend anybody with a dash of Cheabol/government interests in mind.
I can't be the only who thinks this way. |
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Times30
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I also agree the campaigns are well intention but poorly executed. The focus should be on censorship and media control.
We may not realize it but everyday behavior is copied from what we see on TV and movies. Our values are also shaped by this. Older generations worshiped a gentleman a good father and a provider. But today's messages all revolve around a bad boy, rebel, and a vagrant.
We send these messages to kids that hey being a jerk is the way to go to get what you want. How many of us have thought that lashing out was the way to solve things just like the movies?
People still believe that if you shoot a car it explodes. Not even close to reality. Anyways, if etiquette wants to be instituted, the flow of behavior has to be controlled. Too much grime and poor messages communicated to kids and adults alike.
Think about all the Kpop songs that catch like wildfire. Young minds are easily influenced. As for people adopting culture look at North Korea. It's much easier than you think. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think the whole plan is misguided. Seoul is attempting to become a more global city, but these campaigns only focus on the peripheral, ignoring the governments abusive nature towards civil rights.
Also, they need to stick with campaigns. We have escalators on one side of the room while people are walking on the other. Arrows that point in one direction while people walk the other way.
I partially agree with you, fermentation. Manners/customs are something that we learn at quite a young age and it generally sticks with us. But, it IS possible to change those manners. It just takes time, and dedication, and that's what is lacking here. People don't really see a reason to change, so they aren't dedicated to it. The government is trying to become more like the rest of the world, fine. But they need to convince people that THEY want to do it, too. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sometimes they can't even make up their minds. A few years ago I got a lot of flak from Koreans I knew because I stood still on the left side of the escalator. But now, it's bad manners to not stand still. |
Why did you do that? It's always been polite to stand on the right side of the escalator. I picked that up in my first week in Korea.
Koreans need to be taught manners about a lot of modern lifestyle situations because their parents and grandparents never passed them on to them. The generations over 40 years old today are doing lots of things for the first time.
My father and grandfather taught me the manners and etiquette of driving, being men who had driven all their lives.....but that's not the case in Korea. |
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mukukja
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone here was taught manners by public service announcements or the like, raise your hand.
These are the kinds of stupid things that are created by Korea.Inc and lambasted by the rest of us. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mukukja wrote: |
| If anyone here was taught manners by public service announcements or the like, raise your hand. |
Yes but in the west there is not much need for it because the parents teach it to their kids.
Here they don't. Teaching basic manners is a burden left to the schoolteachers. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
I partially agree with you, fermentation. Manners/customs are something that we learn at quite a young age and it generally sticks with us. But, it IS possible to change those manners. It just takes time, and dedication, and that's what is lacking here. People don't really see a reason to change, so they aren't dedicated to it. The government is trying to become more like the rest of the world, fine. But they need to convince people that THEY want to do it, too. |
It is possible to change, I just don't think it should be forced on us by the government. Like I said, I don't agree with all the things they consider to be etiquette.
| Quote: |
| Why did you do that? It's always been polite to stand on the right side of the escalator. I picked that up in my first week in Korea. |
It was my first couple days back in Korea after living in the states for several years. Don't know where you been, but now there's a campaign against standing still on the right side and to walk on the left. You're supposed to stand on both sides and not walk at all.
| Quote: |
I also agree the campaigns are well intention but poorly executed. The focus should be on censorship and media control.
We may not realize it but everyday behavior is copied from what we see on TV and movies. Our values are also shaped by this. Older generations worshiped a gentleman a good father and a provider. But today's messages all revolve around a bad boy, rebel, and a vagrant.
We send these messages to kids that hey being a jerk is the way to go to get what you want. How many of us have thought that lashing out was the way to solve things just like the movies?
People still believe that if you shoot a car it explodes. Not even close to reality. Anyways, if etiquette wants to be instituted, the flow of behavior has to be controlled. Too much grime and poor messages communicated to kids and adults alike.
Think about all the Kpop songs that catch like wildfire. Young minds are easily influenced. As for people adopting culture look at North Korea. It's much easier than you think. |
Now I didn't agree with any of this at all. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Fermentation wrote: |
| but now there's a campaign against standing still on the right side and to walk on the left. You're supposed to stand on both sides and not walk at all. |
The logic behind this is that the even distribution of weight is better for the escalator, or so I hear.
Apparently if you have everyone standing on only one side, it knocks out the mechanics and has to be repaired.
Isn't this going to cause a lot of problems in the morning rush hour? Its equivalent to erasing the fast lane of a highway. |
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Times30
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
Now I didn't agree with any of this at all. |
Wasn't really looking for your approval. Not really sure why I'd care about your disagreement if you didn't support it or substantiate it with facts.
You seem to be of the idea that "stuffing it down peoples throats" doesn't work. But could you actually get an idea if it actually works or not? Quite frankly there would be no real way for you to tell and you're more or less guessing?
Propaganda in one way or another, exposing people to ideas does proliferate if it's repeated enough times. It doesn't matter what the idea is, if you're exposed to it and it's repeated it gets into your head.
Take any commercial. I'm sure anyone of us who doesn't even speak Korean could repeat a jingle, maybe Hauzen or whatever else. Behavior is seen and imitated, unfortunately the etiquette commercial has too much cognitive dissonance with other forms of media that showcase bad behavior. TV dramas, shows, etc show that yelling and being emotional is the way to go. Kids learn, adults learn, everyone imitates it.
I can't see how you could possibly disagree and frankly I think your concern is largely misguided by simply being annoyed by minor things around you when I largely thought you were pushing for etiquette but I can see I was mistaken both by re-reading your opening post and your responses. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| mukukja wrote: |
| If anyone here was taught manners by public service announcements or the like, raise your hand. |
Yes but in the west there is not much need for it because the parents teach it to their kids.
Here they don't. Teaching basic manners is a burden left to the schoolteachers. |
LOL... Really? |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Fermentation wrote: |
| but now there's a campaign against standing still on the right side and to walk on the left. You're supposed to stand on both sides and not walk at all. |
The logic behind this is that the even distribution of weight is better for the escalator, or so I hear.
Apparently if you have everyone standing on only one side, it knocks out the mechanics and has to be repaired.
Isn't this going to cause a lot of problems in the morning rush hour? Its equivalent to erasing the fast lane of a highway. |
This makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was people getting hurt from pushing/falling, but this idea makes a lot of sense. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I'd say the 우측보행 (walk on the right) campaign was pretty effective. The habits aren't perfect yet, but I see a lot of people consciously shifting to the right lane of staircases even when the left is closer. It seems in general, at least compared to my home country, that the government here can actually get decent results when seeking to change little habits- walking on the right, using reusable bags at the marts, queuing properly to board the subway, honesty policy for train tickets, getting that quiet time for the SAT, and so on. This obviously has the potential for good.
I agree that some of the etiquette suggestions are a little too prudish or unrealistic, but a lot of them are good. Some areas could definitely use more focus (like driving, spitting). |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| mukukja wrote: |
| If anyone here was taught manners by public service announcements or the like, raise your hand. |
Yes but in the west there is not much need for it because the parents teach it to their kids.
Here they don't. Teaching basic manners is a burden left to the schoolteachers. |
LOL... Really? |
Thats the impression I get when I see parents letting their kids behave however they please in public places. In the west you will see parents constantly chivvying their kids into order. Here they just let them go and forget about them entirely.
Scream at the top of your lungs in the echoing appartment stairwell? Sure!Harras people sitting nearby at a restaurant? No problem!
Point at foreigners and scream waygook-i-dah!!? Go ahead...
Kick on a door or hammer it with your fists instead of knocking? Don't let me stop you.
The kids I teach appear not to have been taught even the basics of etiquette, they behave like barnyard animals. I often have to spend more time training them than I actually do teaching.
The concept of modern etiquette, a way of showing consideration and making others feel comfortable.. is rooted in western european culture. Historically this is not an Asian idea. |
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Feloria
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most Western nations do similar things?
I mean, as kids, we're there PSAs about how to act/behave? Whatever the social issue was at the time, it seemed to be followed by a PSA of some sort.
And that's not counting the 40s-50s. I'm almost positive they had a bevy of instructional things about what you should or shouldn't do.
Seriously, we have signs up all over the place in Canada of what you should and shouldn't do - and I'm pretty sure those were implemented at some point by an 'education campaign'. |
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