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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| As for the rest of the things you mention (which are hard to quantify), are you saying they are less alive than in other countries?. |
No, I did not even mention other countries.
Its no wonder you don't understand what I said. Of course you don't.
This is part of the problem. Because the people don't understand the importance of things anymore like they used to.
Britain would never be able to have an empire now. They're not the same people they were. Not of the same calibre. Nowhere near.
Mugging defenseless boys for their playstations and smashing up neighborhood shops are only the most obvious symptoms of that. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: ... |
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You realise this board is essentially dominated by two groups?
Korean apologists and u know who apologists. Hence kuros being able to 'play to the audience.' You think Julius is full of spite? Wait until yaya gets started on an anti europe rant! |
That's funny, cuz there was this other dude who whinged on for a couple of years about how the board was run exclusively by liberals brainwashed into anti-US sentiment by their American college professors.
Then, Dr. Doom rolled in to assail the liberals who were bleedingly unaware of the Islamic tsunami that was about to take out Europe.
Then, it got economically swamped with free trade bots proposing a whole range of Ayn Rand pap.
Maybe, just maybe, Mr Floaty, you should hang around here a bit longer and first ask whether you're projecting this anti-UK polemic from events in your own life. I mean, as a Brit, you're definitely a minority expat in Korea. That might very well mean that you're encountering some very sheltered North Americans in your daily travails. But, this board really doesn't run that way.
I mean, there are occasional nationalistic spats and probably more American politics than you care for, but it's laughable that you're breaking up some pro-US fundamentalist cabal.
In fact, that says more about you than any of us, so please... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| So, people in the US never steal things for fun or commit arson? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
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| People in the US have never rioted and set things afire after a sporting event? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
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| People in Detroit never set a bunch of stuff on fire for Devil's Night? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
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| People in the US don't commit the crime of vandalism? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
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Ha ha ha ha.
Steelrails won't admit the banksters are the biggest thieves in America. |
Really? Where did I say that.
It's yo who won't admit that the poor can be a bunch of thieves without any morality and simply because they are poor does not make them more virtuous.
So because bankers are bigger thieves, that makes it okay for poor people or middle class people to steal as well? |
You call failure to pay a loan theft, whereas the law calls it default. You think such people committed criminal conduct, whereas they have merely dishonored a civil contract for which remedies are damages or repossession. You think its the equal responsibility of borrower to pay the loan as it is the lender to do due diligence and responsibly lend (particularly when it is someone else's money to lend, as is almost always the case). You think repossession should be enforced with lethal force.
And yes, I think bankster theft is morally worse than when someone lifts a beer from a liquor store (to take an actual act of theft). And I absolutely reject Obama's statement (on 60 Minutes with Kroft) that most of the bank misconduct was legal and that's why he passed Dodd-Frank. Much of the bank misconduct was already illegal and he's only tried to paper over it with settlements and cover it up with bank lobbyist-holed legislation. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| So, people in the US never steal things for fun or commit arson? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
| Quote: |
| People in the US have never rioted and set things afire after a sporting event? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
| Quote: |
| People in Detroit never set a bunch of stuff on fire for Devil's Night? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
| Quote: |
| People in the US don't commit the crime of vandalism? |
Countrywide? for no particular reason? No.
|
Ha ha ha ha.
Steelrails won't admit the banksters are the biggest thieves in America. |
Really? Where did I say that.
It's yo who won't admit that the poor can be a bunch of thieves without any morality and simply because they are poor does not make them more virtuous.
So because bankers are bigger thieves, that makes it okay for poor people or middle class people to steal as well? |
You call failure to pay a loan theft, whereas the law calls it default. You think such people committed criminal conduct, whereas they have merely dishonored a civil contract for which remedies are damages or repossession. You think its the equal responsibility of borrower to pay the loan as it is the lender to do due diligence and responsibly lend (particularly when it is someone else's money to lend, as is almost always the case). You think repossession should be enforced with lethal force.
And yes, I think bankster theft is morally worse than when someone lifts a beer from a liquor store (to take an actual act of theft). And I absolutely reject Obama's statement (on 60 Minutes with Kroft) that most of the bank misconduct was legal and that's why he passed Dodd-Frank. Much of the bank misconduct was already illegal and he's only tried to paper over it with settlements and cover it up with bank lobbyist-holed legislation. |
Willfull failure to repay a loan or not taking responsibility in making the effort to pay IS theft in my view. If you say "Bah, I'm not going to repay that, those bankers are scum". That is theft. If instead of repaying your loan you spend the money at the bar or on a trip, that is theft.
If you are unable to pay despite your best efforts, yes, that is default.
YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT. A CONTRACT IS A CONTRACT.
Yes, I believe that the borrower should have an equal amount of responsibility in repaying the loan as the person does in issuing it. Why shouldn't they?
I never said that repayment should use lethal force. I said that if someone is willfully defrauding someone of loan money, then they are engaging in a criminal act. If the police come to arrest them and they resist, they increase the likelihood of having lethal force used against them.
Is the banker worse? Yes. Does that make the poor man innocent? No.
Why can't you admit that poor people commit crimes and get away with them just as frequently as rich people? Why are the poor portrayed as victims and innocent people? Is this reality or what you wish were true? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Yes, I believe that the borrower should have an equal amount of responsibility in repaying the loan as the person does in issuing it. Why shouldn't they?
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Of course the borrower has a responsibility to repay. And if the borrower signs a loan and intends never to repay, then that is fraud, and it could be criminal.
But you don't understand that contract law isn't criminal law. A breach of contract carries with it a penalty, and that penalty is almost always damages. It isn't jail time. It isn't a revocation of freedom. Civilized societies don't have debtor's prisons. They have bankruptcy laws and secured transactions and credit scores and rates of interest that compensate lenders for the inevitable 2-4% of individuals who default on loans.
A CONTRACT IS A CONTRACT. BREAKING IT IS NOT A CRIME.
And your charge that I am exculpating the poor is a red herring. I have not. If the poor defrauded investors out of millions of dollars at a time, I'd be blasting them for it, believe me. But it almost never happens. And I'm supposed to blame them equally for blowing a mortgage payment, upon which the lender has the recourse of foreclosure? There's no equivalence here. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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In other news that you probably haven't heard about:
Charity carol concert attacked by Congo protesters
Shops were attacked, passers-by threatened and car windows smashed during a demonstration in central London against the election result in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The carol concert was raising money for MacMillan Cancer Support. It was organised by a group of friends whose loved ones had been treated for cancer.
Masked teenage boys �stormed� the singers, throwing bottles of water and hot drinks into the crowd. A woman in her 40s, said to be undergoing treatment for breast cancer, was pulled to the ground. A youth attempted to set light to the Christmas tree, an annual gift from the city of Oslo since 1947, one witness said.
You might ask yourself why people are protesting the Congolese election in the UK. Then again, you might also ask yourself, what people from the Congo are doing in the UK, and how exactly this benefits the people of the UK. Oh, I forgot, it makes us more 'diverse.' |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| As for the rest of the things you mention (which are hard to quantify), are you saying they are less alive than in other countries?. |
No, I did not even mention other countries.
Its no wonder you don't understand what I said. Of course you don't.
This is part of the problem. Because the people don't understand the importance of things anymore like they used to.
Britain would never be able to have an empire now. They're not the same people they were. Not of the same calibre. Nowhere near.
Mugging defenseless boys for their playstations and smashing up neighborhood shops are only the most obvious symptoms of that. |
So you're just lamenting modern Britain no matching up to a very much imaginary picture you have of it's past?
I'd get over that real quick if I were you.
| Quote: |
| Maybe, just maybe, Mr Floaty, you should hang around here a bit longer and first ask whether you're projecting this anti-UK polemic from events in your own life. I mean, as a Brit, you're definitely a minority expat in Korea. That might very well mean that you're encountering some very sheltered North Americans in your daily travails. But, this board really doesn't run that way. |
Been reading this forum since 2004.
I'd love you to meet my Merican firends and call them sheltered. It would be hillarious. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| As for the rest of the things you mention (which are hard to quantify), are you saying they are less alive than in other countries?. |
No, I did not even mention other countries.
Its no wonder you don't understand what I said. Of course you don't.
This is part of the problem. Because the people don't understand the importance of things anymore like they used to.
Britain would never be able to have an empire now. They're not the same people they were. Not of the same calibre. Nowhere near.
Mugging defenseless boys for their playstations and smashing up neighborhood shops are only the most obvious symptoms of that. |
So you're just lamenting modern Britain no matching up to a very much imaginary picture you have of it's past?
I'd get over that real quick if I were you.
| Quote: |
| Maybe, just maybe, Mr Floaty, you should hang around here a bit longer and first ask whether you're projecting this anti-UK polemic from events in your own life. I mean, as a Brit, you're definitely a minority expat in Korea. That might very well mean that you're encountering some very sheltered North Americans in your daily travails. But, this board really doesn't run that way. |
Been reading this forum since 2004.
I'd love you to meet my Merican firends and call them sheltered. It would be hillarious. |
Floaty is just bitter and jaded. Been lurking a forum since 2004, and only joined 2 months ago. Why would you lurk on Dave's ESL for 7 years and not post anything? That, to me, is pretty creepy. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| As for the rest of the things you mention (which are hard to quantify), are you saying they are less alive than in other countries?. |
No, I did not even mention other countries.
Its no wonder you don't understand what I said. Of course you don't.
This is part of the problem. Because the people don't understand the importance of things anymore like they used to.
Britain would never be able to have an empire now. They're not the same people they were. Not of the same calibre. Nowhere near.
Mugging defenseless boys for their playstations and smashing up neighborhood shops are only the most obvious symptoms of that. |
So you're just lamenting modern Britain no matching up to a very much imaginary picture you have of it's past?
I'd get over that real quick if I were you.
| Quote: |
| Maybe, just maybe, Mr Floaty, you should hang around here a bit longer and first ask whether you're projecting this anti-UK polemic from events in your own life. I mean, as a Brit, you're definitely a minority expat in Korea. That might very well mean that you're encountering some very sheltered North Americans in your daily travails. But, this board really doesn't run that way. |
Been reading this forum since 2004.
I'd love you to meet my Merican firends and call them sheltered. It would be hillarious. |
Floaty is just bitter and jaded. Been lurking a forum since 2004, and only joined 2 months ago. Why would you lurk on Dave's ESL for 7 years and not post anything? That, to me, is pretty creepy. |
Creepy? Reading a forum?
Wow you must be sheltered if that's your definition of creepy. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Yes, I believe that the borrower should have an equal amount of responsibility in repaying the loan as the person does in issuing it. Why shouldn't they?
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Of course the borrower has a responsibility to repay. And if the borrower signs a loan and intends never to repay, then that is fraud, and it could be criminal.
But you don't understand that contract law isn't criminal law. A breach of contract carries with it a penalty, and that penalty is almost always damages. It isn't jail time. It isn't a revocation of freedom. Civilized societies don't have debtor's prisons. They have bankruptcy laws and secured transactions and credit scores and rates of interest that compensate lenders for the inevitable 2-4% of individuals who default on loans.
A CONTRACT IS A CONTRACT. BREAKING IT IS NOT A CRIME.
And your charge that I am exculpating the poor is a red herring. I have not. If the poor defrauded investors out of millions of dollars at a time, I'd be blasting them for it, believe me. But it almost never happens. And I'm supposed to blame them equally for blowing a mortgage payment, upon which the lender has the recourse of foreclosure? There's no equivalence here. |
So if breaking contracts and all those things are not crimes, why the hate for the "fat cats"? Just sue them! Don't throw them in jail!
But I'm pretty sure you want those crooks thrown behind bars, right?
Well it has to work both ways. I for one, want contract breaking hucksters, rich or poor, be subject to the law both criminal and civil.
And as for poor people defrauding people out of their livelihoods, what about pimps, drug dealers, gang bangers, and other rip off artists? What about the poor guy who blows away some shopkeeper for 60 bucks and a pack of smokes?
Please, laws for rich people shouldn't be based on the jealousy of the poor. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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@Julius
Name the year that Britain was all the things you claimed it be and yet is now no more.
Also yes any 'respect' Britain had was derived from our power, our military conquests and our economic dominance. At one time Britain's formal and infomal empire exterted power and influence on a scale that had never been seen before.
That's what people were in awe of, that is what they wanted to emulate. Not some chocolate box vision of gentlemen playing cricket on a manicured lawn in front of the village church. |
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