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Woden
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| joesp wrote: |
Woden, I don't think Nathan Rutledge is trying to make any point at all. I think he is simply describing the situation as it is. Your approach is trying to be more persuasive, like a lawyer arguing to achieve a goal. You both agree on your facts, and I thank you for them as it created very interesting reading.
To the OP I can suggest the 국가인권위원회 (the National Human Rights Council) at www.humanrights.go.kr. This is the same place that Woden told you to go in the first page. There is a link for 외국인. They say you can do what is called 진정which is an explanation of the situation surrounding the event.
http://www.humanrights.go.kr/subject/common/body01_4.jsp?cate=107&seq=112&maincate=51&menuid=1
The above link is a link to a page that describes your options for reporting (phone call, email, going in person).
It does say that they will investigate claims of racial discrimination involving private companies.
The list of what they deal with is long and actually includes "discrimination" (인종) so I would be interested if you could update if you do follow this route, on the outcome of your reporting. Foreigners do have rights under the laws. It would be interesting to hear how far you get once you make your complaint, which is clear-as-day a violation, and see what happens.
In this thread, you had one link to a newspaper by the Korean Times about a woman who was denied entry to a sauna, and a commentary by a director of a local migrant worker group (not the Human Rights Council !!) saying that they had petitioned the council but had not heard back from them yet.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2011/10/117_96613.html
In the article, they only report the opinions of the victim of discrimination and of the Director of the Gyeongnam Migrant Community Service Center as he offers his interpretation of the law. However, his words are merely his opinion and do not reflect what the Council will decide. The result is not mentioned. In other words, the article is nothing but sensationalism, published by a "newspaper" whose "articles" do not usually even deserve to be classified as journalism.
What would be helpful to you, however, espeically with the language, is the fact that the petitioner did not directly appeal to the Human Rights Council but got the MIgrant Worker Center to petition on her behalf. Find one of those in Pusan and explain your situation. Print out that article. Tell them you want to do the same thing. That is exactly the kind of assistance and friends you need.
I really am sick of people hearing of one story and concluding that it is hopeless. It is not hopeless until you have personally tried and exhausted all options. Don't believe everything you hear.
You could just end up being the first black school teacher in Alabama, there, son. |
Thanks for this. Maybe I did misconstrue what Nathan was saying, maybe not. I think though you have covered what I wanted to say in a much less argumentative way! Cheers!
If foreigners were more aware of these mechanisms they really could make a difference, it just takes time. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Malislamusrex wrote: |
Yes I did, I went there with my wife, apparently homosexual Russians went there and used it as a meeting place to abuse each others anuses. A foreigner went there and some Russian guys tried to make sweet love to him and he walked out to tell the manager, when the manager came in he caught a bunch of Russian guys brown handed. I would rather not think what they were doing, but I feel like I should go to church and pray.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| So, did Malislamusrex ever go check it out? |
Good question.
However, on a hunch and just for fun I asked my friend Dave who lives near 사하 (Saha) station to visit the spa you were turned away from. He is an average caucasian american male in his late 30s. Been in Busan for 6 years now.
Anyway, he said if he had time he would check it out, camera in hand.
Well he showed up there last weekend, paid the fee, used the facilities and left.
Maybe your rebuff led to some consequences and the staff was warned or something?
Anyway, interesting and I am curious to see if others are willing to visit the place and see what happens. |
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True story? If so, ick. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
Yes I did, I went there with my wife, apparently homosexual Russians went there and used it as a meeting place to abuse each others anuses. A foreigner went there and some Russian guys tried to make sweet love to him and he walked out to tell the manager, when the manager came in he caught a bunch of Russian guys brown handed. I would rather not think what they were doing, but I feel like I should go to church and pray.
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| So, did Malislamusrex ever go check it out? |
Good question.
However, on a hunch and just for fun I asked my friend Dave who lives near 사하 (Saha) station to visit the spa you were turned away from. He is an average caucasian american male in his late 30s. Been in Busan for 6 years now.
Anyway, he said if he had time he would check it out, camera in hand.
Well he showed up there last weekend, paid the fee, used the facilities and left.
Maybe your rebuff led to some consequences and the staff was warned or something?
Anyway, interesting and I am curious to see if others are willing to visit the place and see what happens. |
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True story? If so, ick. |
Yeah true story and he did not stay long but the place was pretty empty. Considering what Malislamusrex I see this is a good thing!
Also perhaps when you got denied entry the clerk was doing a favor considering what Malislamusrex related. Good lord. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I mean masilmurus' story.
But yeah. I had a bad enough experience at the hamilton once, so.... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
I mean masilmurus' story.
But yeah. I had a bad enough experience at the hamilton once, so.... |
His story means you getting denied entry may have been a blessing in disguise! lol
Also, it kind of confirms what I know of places around Texas street and Busan station!
There are far, far better places to go if you want to go to a jimjilbang, spa or hot spring.... |
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thunderbird
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| why do you wanna pay money to take a bath when you got a shower at home? i look at this more as there teaching us common sense and how to save money |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| thunderbird wrote: |
| why do you wanna pay money to take a bath when you got a shower at home? i look at this more as there teaching us common sense and how to save money |
You never been to a sauna thunderbird?
They are fabulous. An almost 100% cure for hangovers, general tiredness, mailaise, stress, fatigue, nervous exhaustion etc. Ok, booze is too, but.....
Seriosuly though, for me whenever i'm too up, too down, too tired, too tight, have a cold, you name it - I come out of the sauna fully renewed.
As the Finns say 'if it can't be cured with spirits (they mean vodka, not voodoo) or steam - it'll kill you!'
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Re: No foriegners allowed in Busan sauna - I was refused ent |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
I have lived and worked in korea for 7 years.
I have travelled over almost every inch of the country and enjoyed saunas all accross the land, even in Jeollanamdo and never once been turned away.
Tonight this happened to me for the first time.
I thought I might have misunderstood, so I asked her explicitly in Korean if any foriegners were allowed regardless of race nationality etc and she confirmed that they are not.
I explained that I am an Englishman and an English teacher for a Busan governemnt sponsered school in Busan. I offered to show my id proving as much to show I wasn't a Russian gangster etc. She still refused.
The irony: the sauna is in 'Choryang FORIEGNER'S shopping zone' in Busan opposite the station.
The name of the sauna is 'Bally Land.'
There are reputedly a lot of Chinese / Russian 'gangs' operating there, hence my mentioning my nationality and proffession.
Will post pics of the place tomorrow. |
Wow, 7 years and you still don't understand that a family Jimjilbang could turn into a brothel at night
This is dynamic Korea. Man, just go home, that's my advice. You don't get and you never will. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Re: No foriegners allowed in Busan sauna - I was refused ent |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
I have lived and worked in korea for 7 years.
I have travelled over almost every inch of the country and enjoyed saunas all accross the land, even in Jeollanamdo and never once been turned away.
Tonight this happened to me for the first time.
I thought I might have misunderstood, so I asked her explicitly in Korean if any foriegners were allowed regardless of race nationality etc and she confirmed that they are not.
I explained that I am an Englishman and an English teacher for a Busan governemnt sponsered school in Busan. I offered to show my id proving as much to show I wasn't a Russian gangster etc. She still refused.
The irony: the sauna is in 'Choryang FORIEGNER'S shopping zone' in Busan opposite the station.
The name of the sauna is 'Bally Land.'
There are reputedly a lot of Chinese / Russian 'gangs' operating there, hence my mentioning my nationality and proffession.
Will post pics of the place tomorrow. |
Wow, 7 years and you still don't understand that a family Jimjilbang could turn into a brothel at night
This is dynamic Korea. Man, just go home, that's my advice. You don't get and you never will. |
At 6pm with old pensioners and kids coming in and out like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nvdh0FMzr0 |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: Re: No foriegners allowed in Busan sauna - I was refused ent |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
I have lived and worked in korea for 7 years.
I have travelled over almost every inch of the country and enjoyed saunas all accross the land, even in Jeollanamdo and never once been turned away.
Tonight this happened to me for the first time.
I thought I might have misunderstood, so I asked her explicitly in Korean if any foriegners were allowed regardless of race nationality etc and she confirmed that they are not.
I explained that I am an Englishman and an English teacher for a Busan governemnt sponsered school in Busan. I offered to show my id proving as much to show I wasn't a Russian gangster etc. She still refused.
The irony: the sauna is in 'Choryang FORIEGNER'S shopping zone' in Busan opposite the station.
The name of the sauna is 'Bally Land.'
There are reputedly a lot of Chinese / Russian 'gangs' operating there, hence my mentioning my nationality and proffession.
Will post pics of the place tomorrow. |
Wow, 7 years and you still don't understand that a family Jimjilbang could turn into a brothel at night
This is dynamic Korea. Man, just go home, that's my advice. You don't get and you never will. |
With old age pensioners and kids coming in and out like? Really? Which planet does that happen on? Amazing effort on putting up a front if there ever was one hey!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nvdh0FMzr0 |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: No foriegners allowed in Busan sauna - I was refused ent |
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What a sanctimonious load of rubbish.
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Well one sauna out of all Korea over 7 years is a pretty darn good ratio! |
I really hope you aren't serious. Being rejected from a business due to your race even once makes for a pretty bad ratio. |
Your logic doesn't make since. The OP was rejected do to his being a foreigner.
Last I checked, Foreigner is NOT a race.
That sauna would've rejected whites, blacks, southeast Asians, Indians, Chinese, and Japanese also. Your "race" argument is not valid.
And yes, it is perfectly fine for a business to refuse service as long as the groups they deny service to are not protected by law. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: No foriegners allowed in Busan sauna - I was refused ent |
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| northway wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| And yes, it is perfectly fine for a business to refuse service as long as the groups they deny service to are not protected by law. |
By your logic, Jim Crow was "fine". |
well said. By this Pkang's logic race basically doesn't exist at all. |
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thunderbird
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| thunderbird wrote: |
| why do you wanna pay money to take a bath when you got a shower at home? i look at this more as there teaching us common sense and how to save money |
You never been to a sauna thunderbird?
They are fabulous. An almost 100% cure for hangovers, general tiredness, mailaise, stress, fatigue, nervous exhaustion etc. Ok, booze is too, but.....
Seriosuly though, for me whenever i'm too up, too down, too tired, too tight, have a cold, you name it - I come out of the sauna fully renewed.
As the Finns say 'if it can't be cured with spirits (they mean vodka, not voodoo) or steam - it'll kill you!'
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yeah ive don it. i still dont see the point in paying to take a bath when uve got a shower at home |
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Colorado
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Public School with too much time on my hands.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| thunderbird wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| thunderbird wrote: |
| why do you wanna pay money to take a bath when you got a shower at home? i look at this more as there teaching us common sense and how to save money |
You never been to a sauna thunderbird?
They are fabulous. An almost 100% cure for hangovers, general tiredness, mailaise, stress, fatigue, nervous exhaustion etc. Ok, booze is too, but.....
Seriosuly though, for me whenever i'm too up, too down, too tired, too tight, have a cold, you name it - I come out of the sauna fully renewed.
As the Finns say 'if it can't be cured with spirits (they mean vodka, not voodoo) or steam - it'll kill you!'
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yeah ive don it. i still dont see the point in paying to take a bath when uve got a shower at home |
You sound like the kind of guy who thinks "Why go see a movie when I got a TV at home."
I'm hooked on my jimjilbang and hit the sauna every morning before work. I'm really gonna miss it when I leave Korea next year. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Colorado wrote: |
| thunderbird wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
| thunderbird wrote: |
| why do you wanna pay money to take a bath when you got a shower at home? i look at this more as there teaching us common sense and how to save money |
You never been to a sauna thunderbird?
They are fabulous. An almost 100% cure for hangovers, general tiredness, mailaise, stress, fatigue, nervous exhaustion etc. Ok, booze is too, but.....
Seriosuly though, for me whenever i'm too up, too down, too tired, too tight, have a cold, you name it - I come out of the sauna fully renewed.
As the Finns say 'if it can't be cured with spirits (they mean vodka, not voodoo) or steam - it'll kill you!'
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yeah ive don it. i still dont see the point in paying to take a bath when uve got a shower at home |
You sound like the kind of guy who thinks "Why go see a movie when I got a TV at home."
I'm hooked on my jimjilbang and hit the sauna every morning before work. I'm really gonna miss it when I leave Korea next year. |
I have missed it a lot since we left in 2008. There are some great jimjilbangs, saunas and hot springs in Busan. |
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