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Is there a bright side to the FTA?
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Woden

Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

Konglishman wrote:

northway wrote:

The Floating World wrote:

2. Learn context. The poster I quoted was saying that Koreans love the US due to thankfulness over the help they gave in the Korean war. In my opinion and experience this is only the older generation's sentiment.

I think your post was relevant to the discussion, and I'd even go so far to say that the older generation doesn't exactly have warm and fuzzy feelings towards the States, at least not across the board. Whatever the US did for the ROK is heavily balanced by their tacit participation in the massacres that occurred in Jeju and Gwangju.

While I am no fan of Jimmy Carter, I do think it is highly unclear whether he had any real power to do anything about the DMZ South Korean troops being deployed against the protesters in Gwangju back in May of 1980. Also, what happened in Jeju?

It is known as 4.3 and occurred in 1948. On Jeju 30,000 (at least) civilians were massacred after refusing to participate in the election in 1948. The islanders were protesting against the division of the country and they felt participating would legitimate the division. The government used ideological arguments to accuse the islanders of being communists. The incident that really kicked off the uprising was the shooting dead of a child at a primary school by the police. As the islanders rose up many special forces and right wing extremists were sent in from North Korea. This further enraged locals and laid the seeds for all out conflict.

The resulting army crackdown wiped out up to a third of the population. Many refugees fled to Osaka, where Jeju dialect is supposedly more openly spoken now than on the island itself. It was a scorched earth policy with all land inland of the coastal strip being fair game for pillage and burning. This was all done while the Korean army was under full US command. The US tacitly supported the massacre. This only came to light amongst the general public after the Gwangju massacre as the minjung movement sought to bring to light the human rights abuses that had taken place throughout Korea. Of foreign authorities, Bruce Cumings has written most extensively, although the local newspaper on Jeju has some very informative pieces. Here is a very useful blog on the events:

http://tenthousandthingsfromkyoto.blogspot.com/2011/04/43-jeju-island-1948-now.html

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:26 am Post subject:

Woden wrote:

atwood wrote:

From a corporation being able to sue a government, and obviously that's a great simplification of how trade disputes are resolved, to it having power over that nation's citizens is a great leap.

Neo-liberal economics has led to a great increase in corporate power over states, which has led to a corresponding decrease in the ability of states to control their own systems of governance for their citizens. To use a non-Korean example, the privatisation of water supplies has adversely affected poor communities the world over, at the behest of corporations.

atwood wrote:

It seems contradictory on the one hand, to be arguing for the rights of "the people" and the governments that supposedly work for them and on the other to claim democracy is a sham.

Not really. I can denounce Stalinism in favour of liberal democracy, if I so wish, even if both are flawed.

atwood wrote:

If you're in favor of revolution, there're are plenty of countries to choose from these days. And then of course there's always Somalia.

That is such a nuanced argument. Thanks for your input.

Just as nuanced as your unsupported claims. The poor whom you seem so concerned with--are you doing anything actual to advance their cause?-are going to get the shaft whether it be from their own governments or the large corporations you're blaming.

But a democratic/capitalist system is their best chance to get out from under and have a fairly high degree of personal autonomy as well as security. Free trade does not have to be a part of that, but it's hard to see how nations without large reserves of natural resources can thrive without free trade, acknowledging of course that trade is never free, it's just less restricted.

pegasus64128

Joined: 20 Aug 2011

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Is there a bright side to the FTA?

myenglishisno wrote:

Just wondering. My Korean friends/students have been talking about it quite a lot and no one has anything good to say about it.

The prevailing opinion seems to be that jobs will be lost, foreign companies will eat Korean companies, public services like health care, agriculture and transportation will become privatized, the cost of medicine will skyrocket since new trade laws prohibit Korea from using the same formulas as medicine from the US and so on. Basically, they make it sound like the world is ending. I also heard that the FTA is designed to favour the US legally so they will always win in a lawsuit between a Korean company and an American company.

I'm no economist and I really can't say that I fully understand this. Can someone break it down? I see there are no threads on here about it. What are the bright sides?

I remember NAFTA wasn't recieved too well in Canada back in the day and apparently this agreement is much worse.

As far as I can see: End result that has anything to do with FT's in Korea - significantly less English teaching jobs, but that's already happening anyway...

Woden

Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:48 am Post subject:

atwood wrote:

But a democratic/capitalist system is their best chance to get out from under and have a fairly high degree of personal autonomy as well as security..

I agree, I just don't think that today's incarnation of free market capitalism is very democratic. Clearly pointing out the quite clear faults in the current system offends you and I am sorry for that.

It is interesting to note that all of the Asian economies that developed quickly and successfully in the last half-century all had heavily protected and subsidised industries.

I'm not saying the free market can't be good, I am just saying that to have blind faith in it would be naive in the extreme.

Chris.Quigley

Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Location: Belfast. N Ireland

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject:

Woden wrote:

atwood wrote:

But a democratic/capitalist system is their best chance to get out from under and have a fairly high degree of personal autonomy as well as security..

It's also interesting to note that the US government had low trade barriers for Korean made goods during the same time period. Why? To help stop the spread of communism. (This has already been pointed out)

Anyone who attributes Korea's success to government intervention and protectionism ignores a very important question: what was driving all that economic growth and inflow of foreign currency?

I am reading a book called Bad Samaritans (Hajoon Chang)- it is an anti-freetrade book. It brings up many of your arguments - it's actually a very good book. Sadly, it fails to address my one simple question above. In fact, I have never heard a satisfactory answer from anyone in the Anti-FTA crowd on this one. (He does bring up many good points though - I recommend it)

You cannot have an inflow of foreign currency-which in turn you use to buy materials and equipment to further economic growth without... wait for it... wait for it.... TRADE! That's right! And the fact is that the USA had very low trade barriers while Korea's were high is what drove economic growth. Government intervention directed economic growth. Protectionism speed up economic growth. But low trade barriers in the USA drove economic growth. (Korea needed somewhere to sell all that stuff!)

Overall, I still believe FTAs benefit people. Some people will lose their jobs - many of them will be old people unable to find work elsewhere. Other people - young people - will have new opportunities open up to them. The question is how does a society make the transition in a fair and compassionate way. If Korea doesn't adapt... and stays in its shell... the old will still end up poor and the young will never have a job.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject:

Woden wrote:

atwood wrote:

But a democratic/capitalist system is their best chance to get out from under and have a fairly high degree of personal autonomy as well as security..

What offends me is making corporations, which I have no great love for, the bogieman. That, IMO, is far too great a simplification and leads many astray--into conspiracy theory territory.

I agree that corporations have, at least in the U.S., become too powerful, and I'm glad to see a small resurgence in union activity and in citizen activism.

As stated above, the Asian economic model was a predatory one, with the U.S. as its prey. The U.S. can no longer afford such economic relationships. Which is nothing new, it has been trying since at least 1989 to make trade conditions in Korea more equitable.

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