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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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The ESL/EFL market is hot; just not in Korea - flooded with US refugees.
As always in EFL the best way to stay one step ahead is to follow the money and don't get too fussed over staying and putting roots in any one country.
In the 90's Japan was hot. It was the place to be and there was excellent money to be made.
Then came the "Asian flu" in the late 90s and it has been downhill for Japan ever since.
Korea came out of it in pretty good shape after the IMF shake-out and quickly became the "next Asian tiger". It was a crappy place to work however and the ONLY way they could get "bright, white, faces was to offer the perks that you are complaining about losing today (air, housing, etc.).
As Korea takes its turn falling from the top of the heap and the numbers of US refugees take hold the value of the remuneration packages will continue to fall.
It makes places like China and Thailand look pretty good.
In China, if you take the time to look around, any one who is qualified for an E2 can usually find a pretty good position with a package that approaches what you would get in Korea (10-12k RMB - 1.8-2.2 million KRW) and with a cost of living at about 1/2 what it is here. End result is a NET SAVINGS of about $800/mo. with better holidays and easier/cheaper travel options.
The same can be said for Thailand. There will always be jobs on offer at 30k baht with no benefits and there will always be backpackers with no qualifications or credentials to take them (but they also don't have visas and work permits either).
For those who qualify for an E2 there are lots of entry level positions starting in the 35-40k baht range with 6-10 weeks of vacation (paid unless you work for some crap agency)
and the opportunity to take on extra work (both legally (on campus) and illegally (off campus or a 2nd job)) giving you a net savings package that can actually exceed what you can make in Korea (unless of course the bright lights and distractions of BKK draw you like a moth to a flame and chew through your earnings faster than you can make them).
Anyone who is capable in the classroom can quickly get into a 50-60k THB/mo job (1.8 - 2.2 million KRW) and have virtually no expenses by comparison.
Bottom line:
Is Korea past its prime = yes.
Is ESL still a profitable venture = yes, but you may have to move to where the opportunity is.
Is there job security in ESL = most definitely yes. There will be a demand for more than 1 million EFL teachers in Asia over the next 10 years.
Will the requirements for entry into the job continue to rise = yes. The days of the backpacker with a 30-day cert and a high school diploma are clearly numbered.
Will there be decent opportunities for those with qualifications = YES, and they continue to increase and improve over time.
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
It amazes that nobody has mentioned that, as of last year, we now pay close to 16% tax instead of 3.3% on our income.
Not only has the won gone to crap in recent years, and prices doubled on many items in the past 10 years, we lost an additional 12% of our pay to taxes. |
You're either making a lot more money than most people, or are getting screwed somewhere along the line.
Tax changes HAVE happened, yes, but not like you're describing.
OLD RULE was that foreigners could either pay regular Korean tax on 70% of their income OR pay a flat 15% tax.
Now, the obvious choice for ESL teachers is regular tax on 70%. BUT, some foreigners have high paying jobs that are taxed in the 30-40% range, and they opt for the 15% rate.
NEW RULE says that if you're a foreigner you pay tax on 100% of your income at the same level as Koreans, OR you pay 15% flat tax. So ESL teachers got the shaft, while high rollers keep their benefit.
Also, remember to clarify your numbers. Are we talking about gross pay and deductions, or are we talking about income tax? Gross pay deductions should be around 10% - income tax, local tax, pension, medical, long term care, etc... INCOME tax alone should only be in the 1.5%-5% range for most of us, depending on pay and worker classification, etc. If you're paying 15% income tax, you're making above average pay for an ESL worker. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Porksta wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
It amazes that nobody has mentioned that, as of last year, we now pay close to 16% tax instead of 3.3% on our income.
Not only has the won gone to crap in recent years, and prices doubled on many items in the past 10 years, we lost an additional 12% of our pay to taxes. |
I'm still only paying about 3.3% |
I believe Americans get a tax break their first year. Otherwise, you may find the govt hunting you down for back taxes in the future. |
First two years, you don't have to pay at all! |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
In China, if you take the time to look around, any one who is qualified for an E2 can usually find a pretty good position with a package that approaches what you would get in Korea (10-12k RMB - 1.8-2.2 million KRW) and with a cost of living at about 1/2 what it is here. End result is a NET SAVINGS of about $800/mo. with better holidays and easier/cheaper travel options.
The same can be said for Thailand. There will always be jobs on offer at 30k baht with no benefits and there will always be backpackers with no qualifications or credentials to take them (but they also don't have visas and work permits either).
For those who qualify for an E2 there are lots of entry level positions starting in the 35-40k baht range with 6-10 weeks of vacation (paid unless you work for some crap agency)
and the opportunity to take on extra work (both legally (on campus) and illegally (off campus or a 2nd job)) giving you a net savings package that can actually exceed what you can make in Korea (unless of course the bright lights and distractions of BKK draw you like a moth to a flame and chew through your earnings faster than you can make them).
Anyone who is capable in the classroom can quickly get into a 50-60k THB/mo job (1.8 - 2.2 million KRW) and have virtually no expenses by comparison.
Bottom line:
Is Korea past its prime = yes. |
I don't know. China was my first choice a couple years ago, but I couldn't find decent jobs. Where are these jobs being advertised? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| First two years, you don't have to pay at all! |
...This is only true for public school and university positions, which is a minority of English teaching jobs here.
...On the issue of jobs in China, I think there are a lot, as China has over twenty times the population of South Korea (so maybe twenty times as many jobs?).
A friend of a friend is a high school dropout, yet working in a university in China. With your qualifications, you could get a good job there. Did you say in another post, you wanted to leave Korea? If China is where your heart is, there is plenty of work there! |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| First two years, you don't have to pay at all! |
...This is only true for public school and university positions, which is a minority of English teaching jobs here.
...On the issue of jobs in China, I think there are a lot, as China has over twenty times the population of South Korea (so maybe twenty times as many jobs?).
A friend of a friend is a high school dropout, yet working in a university in China. With your qualifications, you could get a good job there. Did you say in another post, you wanted to leave Korea? If China is where your heart is, there is plenty of work there! |
not true. The US has an agreement with Korea, not with individual PSs or unis. You can find it on www.irs.gov
China was my first choice, but salaries were the same as what they were years ago. There are some uni jobs I'm looking at, though I've been told that many of these CHinese-foreign consortium agreements aren't the best, which makes me wary. I know about the issues in Korea, but it's been years since I've lived in China. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| not true. |
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression hagwons are not considered accredited institutions of learning, or however that is phrased.
Can anyone else back me on this? (Ttompatz?) |
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Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler you are mistaken - Americans are exempt for the first two years they earn money, including earning it at a hagwon. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| OK, that's not what I read on this board...which is why I didn't get a tax exception/residency form. I paid taxes while working in a hagwon, as did everyone else I knew who worked in a hagwon. I guess there is no way to get that money back? (It is too late now?) |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Alright, guys, I searched online and found some information. (Hopefully, it is accurate and up to date.) If you have something more current (maybe the law recently changed) let me know. To the best of my knowledge, what I said earlier still stands.
http://seoul.usembassy.gov/t_contract.html
| Quote: |
KOREAN TAXES
Most foreign employees are required to pay Korean income taxes, which are generally withheld and paid by the employer. Teachers working for colleges or universities are sometimes entitled to an exemption from paying Korean taxes for up to two years because of the U.S.-Korea Tax Treaty.
Article 20 of the Korean tax code: An individual who is a resident of a contracting State, and who at the invitation of any university, college, or other recognized educational institution, visits the other contracting State for a period not exceeding two years solely for the purpose of teaching, or research or both at such educational institution shall be taxable only in the first mentioned State on his remuneration for such teaching or research.
The Tax Office maintains a list of institutes that are tax exempt. This provision applies only to teachers employed at universities, research centers, or university-operated institutes (teachers at hakwons and private companies have to pay taxes). |
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/publications/korea_coree-eng
| Quote: |
Article 20 of the Korean Tax Code states: "An individual who is a resident of a contracting State and who, at the invitation of any university, college, or other recognized educational institution, visits the other contracting State for a period not exceeding two years solely for the purpose of teaching, or research or both at such educational institution shall be taxable only in the first mentioned State on his remuneration for such teaching or research."
The Korean Tax Office in Seoul maintains a list of institutes where foreign teachers are tax-exempt. In principle, Article 20 applies only to teachers employed at universities, research centres or university-operated institutes. Teachers at hakwons and at private companies may have to pay tax. |
http://www.gone2korea.com/benefits-of-teaching.html
| Quote: |
| Limited Taxation: Western teachers in Korea can expect to pay only 3% to 5% of their monthly salary to the Korean Revenue Agency. The amount a teacher pays depends on the salary the teacher is making. Schools in Korea will deduct these taxes directly from your monthly salary; therefore, filing tax claims and receipts in Korea is not required. Note: Public school teachers are exempt from paying income taxes during their first 2 years of employment. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| not true. |
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression hagwons are not considered accredited institutions of learning, or however that is phrased.
Can anyone else back me on this? (Ttompatz?) |
That's what I've heard, too. And I think the wording on the IRS site suggests as much. If it isn't true, then there have been a lot of mislead hagwon teachers.
Ttompatz is Canadian, so he might not be the one to ask. But if there are any hagwon teachers from the US that were able to get their residency certificate, it'd be good to hear from them. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| OK, that's not what I read on this board...which is why I didn't get a tax exception/residency form. I paid taxes while working in a hagwon, as did everyone else I knew who worked in a hagwon. I guess there is no way to get that money back? (It is too late now?) |
Yikes, that stinks. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| OK, that's not what I read on this board...which is why I didn't get a tax exception/residency form. I paid taxes while working in a hagwon, as did everyone else I knew who worked in a hagwon. I guess there is no way to get that money back? (It is too late now?) |
Yikes, that stinks. |
Why? Did you just realize you've committed tax fraud and declared it on a public forum? Yep. That would stink. Remember, ingnorance of the law is not a defense.
Merry Christmas everyone!
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| not true. |
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression hagwons are not considered accredited institutions of learning, or however that is phrased.
Can anyone else back me on this? (Ttompatz?) |
That's what I've heard, too. And I think the wording on the IRS site suggests as much. If it isn't true, then there have been a lot of mislead hagwon teachers.
Ttompatz is Canadian, so he might not be the one to ask. But if there are any hagwon teachers from the US that were able to get their residency certificate, it'd be good to hear from them. |
Teachers NOT from Canada CAN get a tax exemption from Korean taxes for up to 2 years provided they work at a public university, public research facility or public school.
If not at one of those three then you pay Korean taxes.
Americans have a break from the IRS on FOREIGN EARNED INCOME (your wages earned in Korea).
You still have to file (you are entitled to a late filing) but essentially the first $80-odd thousand dollars of foreign earned income is tax exempt.
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| OK, that's not what I read on this board...which is why I didn't get a tax exception/residency form. I paid taxes while working in a hagwon, as did everyone else I knew who worked in a hagwon. I guess there is no way to get that money back? (It is too late now?) |
Yikes, that stinks. |
Why? Did you just realize you've committed tax fraud and declared it on a public forum? Yep. That would stink. Remember, ingnorance of the law is not a defense.
Merry Christmas everyone!
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She doesn't work for a hagwon. She was saying it stinks for WT, under the presumption that he didn't owe taxes to Korea. But he did, so it's a moot point. Try reading things in context. And Merry Christmas to you, too. |
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